Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) (1 Viewer)

[Lou Sytsma]

Yep.

 

[George_W_K]

Damn it, damn it, damn it. The home release of the Ultimate cut is the first disc in awhile that I highly looked forward to. I bought the 4k version so I could have the UHD disc when I bought a player eventually. I didn't read the box and the bluray is the theatrical cut. Flippin' ridiculous.

I hope Best Buy takes it back opened. I don't want to buy the Samsung player yet, I wanted to wait and see what other players come along and wait for the prices to come down.

I thought it was ridiculous enough that the 3D version wasn't the ultimate cut.

And I even remember this being brought up earlier in this thread, but I thought it was determined that it was an error. I remembered wrong.

This is aggravating.

 

[MattBradley]

I did the exact same thing. At least the download comes with both versions.

 

[George_W_K]

Best Buy allowed me to exchange it so I picked up the version that comes with the graphic novel.

 

[SamT]

 

[Brandon Conway]

They get some good shots in (they're trailers always make me chuckle), but mocking the Martha scene for being something it never actually was and ignoring the central concept of Batman's psyche in the scene has become low hanging fruit, IMO.

 

[SamT]

The Martha scene: What? Your mommy's name is my mommy's name? Kiss kiss. We are BFFs. Unbelievable. That was the worst part of the movie for me. Like they didn't care enough to spend a little time to write a coherent story to make it all work. They got lazy on writing.

 

[Sean Bryan]

Come on. You don't actually think the reason he stopped was just because their mothers share the same name?

While a little convenient, the name thing simply was the hook that got Bruce's attention. The significance of the information was that it reminded Bruce that Clark was a person. A person who had a family he loved and that loved him. That reminder help to snap Bruce out of his terminator mode.

It certainly was not the strongest bit of storytelling, but there was a bit more emotional significance to it than just "hey they have the same name we're friends".

 

[Richard V]

Come on. You don't actually think the reason he stopped was just because their mothers share the same name?

While a little convenient, the name thing simply was the hook that got Bruce's attention. The significance of the information was that it reminded Bruce that Clark was a person. A person who had a family he loved and that loved him. That reminder help to snap Bruce out of his terminator mode.

It certainly was not the strongest bit of storytelling, but there was a bit more emotional significance to it than just "hey they have the same name we're friends".

Exactly. I'm surprised by how many people fail to understand this. Superman/Clark was trying to prevent his Martha from dying in a way Bruce could have never prevented his Martha from dying. I thought it was a very important part of the narrative. Bruce had been tortured his entire life by the image of his parents being murdered in front of his eyes, and being powerless as a little boy to prevent it.

 

[Simon Massey]

Exactly. I'm surprised by how many people fail to understand this. Superman/Clark was trying to prevent his Martha from dying in a way Bruce could have never prevented his Martha from dying. I thought it was a very important part of the narrative. Bruce had been tortured his entire life by the image of his parents being murdered in front of his eyes, and being powerless as a little boy to prevent it.

Sorry but I think most people understood exactly this - it wasn't exactly subtle - and still thought it a bit silly. I didn't hate the film but this plot point was ridiculous.

 

[George_W_K]

I watched the Ultimate Cut yesterday and liked it a lot. As has been said, the movie flowed a lot better than the theatrical, which I did enjoy.

The picture quality was really good, I almost wish I had just bought the Samsung UHD player instead of exchanging for the bluray.

 

[Jonathan Perregaux]

I was curious about one thing. Just how many weighted pull-ups and other weight training exercises does it take before you're sure you can beat up Superman? I'm talking reps and sets here, and also diet. I noticed Bruce never ate anything. Dude... protein! Where's the cans of whey powder?

In The Dark Knight Rises, Bruce only needed a few push-ups and some crackers before he could successfully tackle Bane. I need to know how these things work, you know.

 

[Brandon Conway]

I don't think that people who dislike the Martha scene fail to understand it, but rather that they sell it short. Yes, it's a little cute and convenient, but like was said above, it's merely the hook of the scene. The real impact comes from Batman seeing himself as Joe Chill. Maybe they should have literally had a version of the flashback with Batman holding the gun to his mother's face to really sell that specific part of the sequence more.

 

[Richard V]

Interesting article, read it.........or don't. It won't change anyone's mind about the film, but still interesting, IMO.
http://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...Crew_notification_1469072924&pushcrew_powered

 

[Sam Posten]

Damn it, damn it, damn it. The home release of the Ultimate cut is the first disc in awhile that I highly looked forward to. I bought the 4k version so I could have the UHD disc when I bought a player eventually. I didn't read the box and the bluray is the theatrical cut. Flippin' ridiculous.

If you do keep the UHD make sure you register the code enclosed on Flixster not Vudu. Vudu will only give you HDX. Flixster will give you HD AND UHD if you have your account linked to Vudu. Stupid.

 

[Chris Will]

My problem with the "Martha" scene is the use of the word "Martha". It just felt un-natural for Superman to say "Martha" at that point. I think most people in a situation like that would have said "you are letting them kill my mother". Shoot, I'm 37 and still refer to my parents as mom and dad. If my mom was in trouble I would plead with anyone to "help my mom" not "help Pam". It just felt odd for the character to say Martha at that point IMO. I know they need that word to trigger Batman's reaction but, it still just sounds weird coming from Superman.

 

[SamT]

Yes I think it's terrible to call your parents anything but mom and dad. At least people who love them.

 

[Brandon Conway]

I justify it by believing Superman is smart. Batman already mocked his parents (thinking non-Earth beings) so saying "my Mom" wouldn't have done a thing for Batman. However, trying to get him to realize a human was in trouble might. And then you get the coincidence triggering things further.

I feel that this specific element wouldn't be a concern if there was a 10 second scene where we see Clark investigating Bruce's history, specifically reading a news article about his parents' murder. If Clark knows Batman is Bruce (and he says his name, so he does) and his history, saying the name Martha is a pointed effort to trigger in Bruce exactly what follows in the film.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I watched the "ultimate version" (what a silly way to say "extended cut"), and I had a much different reaction to it than the theatrical version.

The first thing that was immediately clear to me watching this longer version was that it wasn't a matter of adding extra scenes to a finished movie for the sake of making it longer and having a marketing hook. It seems very obvious that the three hour version was the movie that everyone intended to make from the start. When we hear reports from Warner last year where executives were feeling very optimistic about the movie, that must have been the version they saw. Sometimes longer versions are just longer, but this feels version feels like it's the movie that everyone involved was trying to make.

For those that disliked the theatrical version of BvS, their disappointment seemed to come in two categories: people who rejected this characterization of Batman and Superman, and people who were fine with the idea of this movie but didn't like how it came out. I'm sorta in both camps. I made no secret when the movie was released that this wasn't the Batman or Superman story I had wanted to see, and that I have major issues with Batman living in a world where supernatural things exist, and with Superman being the bad guy or even perceived as such. But with all of that said, I didn't walk into this movie wanting to hate it. I walked in with more of an attitude of, "Convince me. Show me what I'm missing here. Show me why this works." And I felt the biggest problem with the theatrical version wasn't that it was different than my preferred interpretation of the characters; the biggest problem was that the movie failed on its own terms. The plot didn't make much sense. Characters took actions that didn't seem motivated by anything that had happened onscreen. Even the characterization of people we had met in "Man Of Steel" seemed off. After watching the extended version, my reaction was this: If you don't think Batman and Superman belong in the same movie or in the same world, this movie isn't going to convince you. If you wanted to see them onscreen together but thought that they just dropped the ball, the extended version will likely address most of your issues.

After seeing the extended version, a friend asked what I thought, and my quick response was "now with 75% less stupid!" And that's pretty much true. The entire mess of a subplot that drives the first half of the movie, that Superman kinda sorta maybe did something rescuing Lois that was bad but isn't really clear or believable as something that he'd do, now has the necessarily detail and clarity for it to make sense. The congressional investigation of Superman is one of the driving forces of the narrative, and in the theatrical version, it simply made no sense. More of the deleted material is related to this subplot than any other single idea, and having that key part of the movie make sense lifts the whole thing. A subplot has been added where we actually get to see Clark Kent being a reporter and investigating Batman sightings in Gotham. Not only is this important because we never got to see Clark reporting in Man Of Steel or in the theatrical cut of BvS, but it also sets up why someone anonymous (later revealed to be Luther) would send him those Polaroids about Batman going vigilante. (This is also typical of the changes in this extended version. In the theatrical version, a lot of stuff just happens. In the extended version, we get to see that that stuff didn't randomly happen, but actually was the logical result of earlier developments in the story.) There are also plenty of tiny, tiny additions that make huge ripples. For instance, there's the scene midway through the movie where a bomb is set off in the Capitol. That scene bothered me because, as portrayed in the theatrical cut, it just shouldn't have happened. Superman can see and hear everything. There is no reason why he wouldn't have heard the bomb ticking, or seen the bomb when he looked over at the man in the wheelchair where it was hidden. In the extended version, Lois reads a line off a police report where she discovers that the wheelchair had a lead-encased compartment, which is why Superman didn't see the bomb. It's a major weakness of Superman's that he can't see through lead, which Man Of Steel inexplicably neglected to mention. I assume that's the reason they cut the line from this movie. But that whole subplot of Superman being powerless to stop the bomb doesn't work unless Superman is actually made powerless, and that doesn't happen in the theatrical, which makes the whole bombing seem unbelievable. That one five second addition makes the entire sequence believable for the first time.

Some of the stuff that flat out didn't work the first time around still doesn't work. The "Knightmare" sequence still grinds the movie to a halt, and has not been extended for clarity. If anything, because the first half of the movie flows so much better in the extended version, having this sequence that doesn't fit is even more jarring. But I actually found the Diana Prince-watching-videos-of-the-other-heroes cameos to be less obnoxious in the longer cut than they were in the theatrical cut. I'm not against cameos and crossovers; what I am against is clumsiness, and those sequences are still very clumsy.

The climax of the movie plays almost the same; most of the additions come in the first half. But I will say this: because the extended version got me more invested in Batman and Superman, and because it better fleshed out Lex's motivation and manipulations, I had more of an emotional investment in the climax. The fight between Batman and Superman still stretches believability, both for the reason they fight and the outcome of the fight, and the fight with Doomsday still comes across to me as being more fantastical and unbelievable than what the movie has set up for believable in its world. I wish the movie had a better final act.

Using a four-star rating system, I would have given the theatrical version two stars. I give the extended version three stars. Getting bumped up a whole star rating is a massive improvement in my book. There's only been one other time that I can think of where I have given an extended or alternate cut that much of a boost (the theatrical version of "Almost Famous" vs the superior "Untitled" director's cut version). Usually I find extended versions to be either of the same quality, but just with more of the stuff I already liked, or less enjoyable due to being overly bloated. That's not the case here. It really, truly felt to me like the "Ultimate Edition" was the movie that everyone involved had set out to make, and in my view, is the version that should have been released theatrically. However much Warner saved by trimming half an hour and maybe getting one more showing in per day, they probably lost in missed business due to brutal reviews and fan disinterest. I think the longer version had a better chance of being a critical success, and would have played better with an audience.

Which brings me to my one complaint about this "ultimate edition" release. I bought the 3D version, but only the theatrical version is in 3D. The extended version is 2D only. The movie wasn't shot in 3D but instead was post-converted, and I'm sure they only started the conversion once they had cut the movie down from 3 hours to 2 1/2. But the longer version is so clearly superior that I wished they had finished it in 3D too. I did watch the theatrical version in 3D, and I was really impressed with the quality of the conversion. It's too bad the extended version couldn't have been offered this way too.

 

[Simon Massey]

My problem with the "Martha" scene is the use of the word "Martha". It just felt un-natural for Superman to say "Martha" at that point. I think most people in a situation like that would have said "you are letting them kill my mother". Shoot, I'm 37 and still refer to my parents as mom and dad. If my mom was in trouble I would plead with anyone to "help my mom" not "help Pam". It just felt odd for the character to say Martha at that point IMO. I know they need that word to trigger Batman's reaction but, it still just sounds weird coming from Superman.

Actually if he had shouted "Mom" rather than "Martha" I could have actually understood Batman's hesitation more as it "humanises" him in a much more effective way. It's still an underlying problem with the film but oddly that would have been better approach- Snyder was trying to be too clever.