Back from Hollywood: A brief summary of our trip, plus: CLONES, SPIDER-MAN and MORE! (2 Viewers)

[Ronald Epstein]

Gents,
Let me clarify again....
I have no problem with any of you taking a
stand against any studio who you feel is
doing injustice to this format. After all,
this forum was designed for consumers such as
us to help police this format. Without our
feedback, the format would never have evolved
the way it has.
Please, at any time, express your negative
viewpoints against any studio you feel is
doing wrong. Just make absolutely sure that
the remarks are made in a professional manner
without becoming a personal attack towards a
studio rep or his/her studio.
Also let me clarify....
This forum is still important to the studios,
but I will be the first to agree that we were
more important to them at the onset of the
format than we are now. Without a doubt, there
seems to be a lack of enthusiasm towards us now
compared to two years ago.
It's a shame. This forum and others like it
were greatly responsible for making DVD what it
is today. Once the format went mainstream, we
were all immediately forgotten. Some studios
opted to advertise on non-DVD related venues
and we have received far less invites to the
studios as in the past. Still, we will make it
a point to support them and defend them whenever
we feel they are being misrepresented through
this forum. Good or bad, we have a lot of
respect for the industry and the people that
run it.
We were very fortunate that both Columbia
and Fox took the time to meet with us as
they did. We are very thankful.

 

[Marty M]

I guess it was inevitable that Wal Mart would be the driving force in DVD movie sales. The studios have to keep their revenues growing. It is just sad that the group of entusiasts, like us, are the ones who first embraced DVD and kept it going until the prices of DVD players came down to a level of the mass market.

I really don't care if they only sell P & S in Wal-Mart, just don't abandon the original group of DVD entusiasts. Keep producing DVDs in OAR.

 

[Craig W]

I think the studios would find that most people just want the film to watch in their format of choice. Why not use DVD-9 (for shorter films like Monsters, Inc.) to include widescreen and P&S, or DVD-18 with Widescreen on one side and P&S on the other? It would eliminate the need for dual releases thus making retailers happy and for titles that justify it the studios could then include a 2nd discs of extras. It may cost a little more upfront for the studios but most consumers and retailers would be happy.

 

[Michael Allred]

The studios don't owe us anything? Well, aren't we consumers? Aren't we the folks who buy DVD's by the dozen? I'd like to think they owe us quality product and pan & scan only discs are in no way "quality".

It's funny that Ron and the gang visited Columbia on this trip as they're the biggest studio who releases many catalog titles in only full screen. See the thing is, most of their catalog titles are bare bones releases and therefore have plenty of space to include both full screen and widescreen versions. Why is such a simple concept so hard to bring to reality? I mean this is an actual solution that really does please everybody (and how often does that happen?) Wal-Mart gets their P&S junk, movie lovers get OAR and Columbia gets their money. *poof* Problem solved.

There just isn't any excuse for full screen *only* DVD's. Widescreen discs are always top sellers anyway. I'm sorry but I cannot look the other way when this problem can be so easily dealt with.

 

[Craig S]

Ron, thanks for the report. I'm sad the national meets seem to be a thing of the past, but I can't say I blame you after what happened last year (mass last-minute cancellations). I'm just glad I got to attend one of 'em!
The most frustrating thing about this report is the WalMart angle. I'd say I'd stop shopping there but I've always avoided shopping there anyway (I've always found the stores junky & unpleasant). I'm sure the situation is even more frustrating to the enthusiasts that work for the studios.
I'm not surprised that the studios have largely withdrawn from forum participation. It's a shame the the bad manners of a few have hurt us all.
I agree with the comments that we should be looking mainly at the quality of picture & sound on the DVD and stop bitching because each disc isn't crammed with every conceivable extra. But I wonder if we can even come to a consensus as to what that basic level of quality is?? I recently started a thread on the lack of an anamorphic transfer (coupled with a very high list price) on Universal's Monsoon Wedding DVD. For recent films with wide ARs I consider 16:9 enhancement essential - part of the basic package. Yet if you read the thread you'll see there are those that say 16:9 enhancement is an extra. Who's right? I don't know. But this just illustrates the various levels of expectation people on this forum have.
At any rate, I'm glad that Ron is keeping up the studio ties, and I'm looking forward to hearing more about the trip from the mods!

 

[Michael Reuben]

I call it like I see it. As for whether it's mature? How many children use the words "drivel" or "pawn"?

Let me put it differently: Would you use the same phrases if you were sitting at a table directly across from the studio people whose opinions you were trying to influence? Because that should be the test of how criticisms are framed. To repeat what Robert Crawford said earlier in this thread: It's not what you say; it's how you say it.

M.

 

[todd s]

Ron,
To slightly change the subject. Did either of the studios mention anything about any new tv show releases??
Thanks!
ps- Hey! Someone tell Walmart I have a WS tv and those P&S dvd's have those annoying black bars on the sides!

 

[RAF]

Were there any discussions with the studio reps about any plans to educate consumers about OAR?

Absolutely! It was brought up several times at several venues. Some of the discussion involved possibly adding some of the better OAR vs. P&S demos as an "extra" on DVDs where DVD real estate permits as a regular option. We also discussed that the "problem" did not appear to be as much of a problem with the younger generation thanks to MTV, commercials, etc. It's my generation (I'm 60) and similar who are creating the P&S demand.

We must remember that this is a profit driven industry and if someone with deep pockets says, "I'm not putting this product on my shelves unless there is a P&S version" then their wallet speaks louder than the very valid artistic arguments for OAR.

That's a fact and if the studio executives don't enhance their bottom line then they will be on the bread line.

That's Hollywood (and most if not all other industries.) It's business, not personal. Rather than yelling at the studios for providing what the majority of their customers (the retail outlets) want the prudent course is to change the majority opinion. I think we are all on the same page with that one.

 

[Mark Bendiksen]

Okay, so if I understand this correctly then there are legitmate reasons why films such as The Road to Wellville and A Midnight Clear MUST be released in full frame only. I do trust you Ron, because (a)you're just plain trustworthy and (b)you were witness to discussions that you cannot share with the group as a whole, and I respect that. It's just that I find pan'n'scan only releases (especially pan'n'scan only releases of NON-mainstream catalog titles) to be an extremely difficult pill to swallow.
However, I am truly glad you had such a great experience on your trip. I look forward to getting the "full" report.
Link Removed

 

[Neil Joseph]

Back to the original post (probably mentioned already) but I find it most interesting that the AOTC transfer is in the purely digital realm as I thought that George Lucas had wanted the "look" to be consistant with all 6 titles on DVD.

 

[Jim_C]

>>That's why HD-DVD needs to stay a niche market. The best it can be (OAR, 1080p, MLP encoded PCM audio, etc.), without input from Walmart and other "evil" and misinformed corporations

 

[Matt Lucas]

I, too, would like to thank Ron and the others who made the trip to Hollywood and lived to tell about it. Having just invested a few thousand dollars in a widescreen TV, I'm more than a little concerned about the movement toward more P&S releases.

I'd also like to go on record and say that---while I am a HUGE fan of DVD extras---at heart, I just love movies. If extras have to be cut from a release so that both the widescreen and P&S versions of a film are included, then I can live with it. That seems like a simple solution, and DVD releases have featured this approach for years. I'd rather have an anamorphic, pristine transfer with great audio and no extras [sharing the same disc with the P&S version] than a P&S-only version DVD with loads of extras.

I won't buy a non-anamorphic version of a DVD, even if it's for one of my favorite films. It's an all-or-nothing thing for me. I want the film looking its anamorphic, OAR best, or nothing at all.

Dan wrote:

It's Walmart that dictates the format films are released in.

Ouch. Okay, I have a question and a suggestion. First, I've only purchased one DVD from Wal-Mart, but it was a whopper---The excellent Ultimate Toybox Toy Story DVD set. Does Wal-Mart regularly stock both widescreen and P&S versions of DVDs, or do they exclusively stock only P&S DVDs?

Second, there's one clear remedy to this situation: We should all get jobs in the Wal-Mart video departments in order to educate the average DVD buyer. I'm sure more than a few of us are qualified...! If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

mattl

 

[Malcolm R]

It is sad that Wal-Mart is now driving the DVD format. I still maintain that if every DVD released was in OAR, Wal-Mart would still sell them. If pan-and-scan disappeared tomorrow, Wal-Mart would not suddenly stop selling DVD's. "Blade II" was widescreen only and every Wal-Mart I was in had a huge standing display of them. They wouldn't have stocked them if they couldn't sell them. Same with "We Were Soldiers." Wal-Mart purchased these widescreen-only titles in massive quantities, why would they do any different for other titles if they were OAR only?

It's a shame everyone seems to have capitulated to Wal-Mart, rather than calling their bluff.

 

[Craig W]

Neil,

I think Lucas realized that many fans know this film was shot digitally and he did not want to alienate them by giving us a less than stellar product.

It will be interesting to see how this film looks at home since I thought the projected film version looked great at some points, but I thought the color was off and the image looked fuzzy in other parts. I with a digital transfer this movie will look better in the home than the way most saw it (film transfer) in the theater. Keeping fingers crossed.

 

[John Berggren]

We must remember that this is a profit driven industry and if someone with deep pockets says, "I'm not putting this product on my shelves unless there is a P&S version" then their wallet speaks louder than the very valid artistic arguments for OAR.

I don't envy the studios being put in this position, but this is a fact: Walmart is bluffing. If the only DVDs that existed were OAR, then they would still carry DVD. However it's an expensive bluff to call for 2 reasons -- 1) If they aren't bluffing (they are) then they won't carry it.
2) They are bluffing, but will "play hardball" for a period which they can afford where they won't carry DVD titles. When customers ask why, they'll direct them to the studio 800 numbers. A big hassle.
3) If studio "A" (FOX) calls their bluff and studio "B" (Disney) doesn't, then Fox is out cold.
Walmart IS bluffing though. Make no mistake. Nobody has the tenacity to call it though.

 

[Dave H]

I find it interesting that we will probably see HD-DVD by the end of next year. I know many were claiming it's 5-10 years away. It doesn't sound like that anymore.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Back to the original post (probably mentioned already) but I find it most interesting that the AOTC transfer is in the purely digital realm as I thought that George Lucas had wanted the "look" to be consistant with all 6 titles on DVD.

I'll have a full review closer to release
date, but from what I have seen, this transfer
looks above and beyond anything you would expect
from a live action film on DVD.
As much mixed opinion I have for the industry
turning completely towards digital filmmaking,
the DVD format greatly benefits in the long run.
The transfer looks immaculate, beautifully crisp
and detailed with absolutely -- and I mean
absolutely none of the subtle graininess found
in film. Scenes take on almost a 3D effect that
can be compared to that found on digital game
media.
There is no live action DVD to date that looks
as good as Episode II. DVD was made for
direct from digital transfers like this. Wait
till you see how bright and vivid the lightsabers
look during the showdown between Obi-Wan, Anakin
and Count Dooku.
An extraordinary transfer for sure!

 

[Rob Willey]

Thanks for the report Ron! I'm glad you guys had a good time. I still have fond memories of last year's Meet and hope to do it again some time soon.

I too am deeply saddened that Wal-Mart is defining the direction of DVD in this country. I guess it is time for a newer, better format.

I certainly hope the studios realize that on the whole, we appreciate their efforts and are very pleased to have our favorite movies, TV shows, and other entertainment presented so well for enjoying in our home theaters. It is just the nature of the forum (perhaps human nature) to nitpick the small number of things we don't like and gloss over the many things we do like. But I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't like DVD and isn't glad the studios continue to churn them out.

Rob

 

[Glenn Overholt]

That must have been a great trip!

I am having trouble with the P&S issue too. If they won't tell us why some DVD's are released in P&S only, then our thoughts can only run wild, WHICH THEY ARE!

Keeping this a secret makes no sense to me. As I have said before, issuing an OAR version cannot possibly cost that much more. It can't take more than a minute to have the cover art changed from 'full screen' to widescreen'. They already have the original OAR release in their machine. The extra money is only needed to convert it to P&S.

If Walmart is THE problem, then I guess we need to start emailing them. Maybe once a week?

Glenn

 

[David James]

Robert A Fowkes said:
"That's Hollywood (and most if not all other industries.) It's business, not personal. Rather than yelling at the studios for providing what the majority of their customers (the retail outlets) want the prudent course is to change the majority opinion. I think we are all on the same page with that one. "

Excellent summarization. I don't believe there is a conspiracy within Wal-Mart to only offer Pan & Scan. I believe they think their customers prefer it. If they thought otherwise, they would change their strategy. Wal-Mart isn't where they are because they have an agenda to push, they are huge because they offer value to their customers.