Aspect Ratio Documentation

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Bob Furmanek, Mar 20, 2012.

  1. lukejosephchung

    lukejosephchung Screenwriter

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    Warner incorporates 2D versions in ALL their 3D blu-ray releases...Kiss Me Kate & Dial M For Murder included...
     
  2. John Hodson

    John Hodson Producer

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    Bob; any information on Midnight Lace (1960)? Universal have supplied yet another 2.00:1 HD master for the German Blu-ray release...
     
  3. Bob Furmanek

    Bob Furmanek Insider
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    Here you go, John.

    Capture.JPG
     
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  4. John Hodson

    John Hodson Producer

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    Thanks Bob; it's astonishing the amount of 2.00:1 HD masters are turning out these days, when the evidence of their own eyes should tell them otherwise.
     
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  5. Vahan_Nisanain

    Vahan_Nisanain Supporting Actor

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    What was the OAR for Otto Preminger's The Man with the Golden Arm? Is 1.85:1 on the Warner DVD correct?

    I should point out that there is also a German Blu-Ray from Concorde Home Entertainment. It is open matte, and it has the United Artists Hexagon.

    Slightly off-topic: Douglas R (if you're reading this thread), I can't 100% confirm it, but I heard the UA Hexagon was strictly for British UA films (Three Sundays to Live, The Hound of the Baskervilles, Tom Jones, A Hard Day's Night, Goldfinger, Help!, Thunderbirds are Go!, How I Won the War, etc.) and International prints of American UA films (The Man with the Golden Arm, Stranger On Horseback, It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, etc.)

    The fact that it appeared on foreign posters of UA films (British, European, Asian, Japanese etc.), but never on any American ones could not be anymore of a tell-tale sign.
     
  6. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    The Man with the Golden Arm was filmed from late September-mid November, 1955 in 1.85 ratio. The 2008 DVD release from Warner has the ratio at 1.78:1.
     
  7. Douglas R

    Douglas R Cinematographer

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    Many thanks but I find that confusing. There are many websites show images of the UA hexagon logo as being in use up to 1967 and showing no variations between different territories. What logo did US prints have up to 1967?
     
  8. Vahan_Nisanain

    Vahan_Nisanain Supporting Actor

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    My impression was that US prints of American UA films had just a simple text notice (i.e. A United Artists Release), or no logo. I've been told the original Amercan negative of Stranger on Horseback had no UA logo.

    When Robert Harris worked on the restoration for It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, there was no Hexagon on the original American prints. There was, on the Asian prints that were used to restore the film back to its original length, though.
     
  9. John Hodson

    John Hodson Producer

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    It's worth reading Torsten Kaiser's comments on the film in this thread, starting from here.
     
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  10. Bob Furmanek

    Bob Furmanek Insider
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    The people doing the mastering for NBC/Universal are not doing their homework!
     
  11. ahollis

    ahollis Lead Actor

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  12. haineshisway

    haineshisway Producer

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    As Peter Allen said, "Everything old is new again." And barely a mention of Cinerama - how quaint.
     
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  13. ahollis

    ahollis Lead Actor

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    Yep my fist thought was digital Cinerama. I actually thought that was possible about 6 years go. But was laughed at then by Christi, I guess I should have talked to Barco. :). As you said what's old is always new again.
     
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  14. Douglas R

    Douglas R Cinematographer

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    BRITISH WIDESCREEN 1950s

    As I said in an earlier post in respect of aspect ratios for 1950s British films, the trade journal Kinematograph Weekly did not begin listing aspect ratios for individual film titles until their issue of December 12, 1957 which provided aspect ratios for films which commenced production from October 1, 1956.

    Nevertheless, I thought it would be interesting to tabulate all the UK films in production - for the earliest two years of the 1950s for which we have details, i.e. October 1, 1956 to September 30, 1958 - and to also list which of the films have also been released on DVD/BD and in which aspect ratio (E & OE).

    The results for each year are shown in two Word documents which are available to download from these links.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/clouddrive/share/kjgzV60SjDftkok9cf58xEJr5AtMH63CqkXFOli-oeI

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/clouddrive/share/JvwtBrB5pcaPwk3czWmVpWoEVORb5hG-b61CTtn3nmo

    As can be seen, the vast majority of films released on DVD or BD for these years have not been released in their original theatrical aspect ratio; which probably comes as no great surprise to anyone! It’s ironic that in several cases the UK label has released a film in the wrong ratio, whilst the US label has released the same film in the correct ratio. It’s also galling to be able to see, for example, the theatrical trailer of ALIVE AND KICKING available on Network’s website in the widescreen ratio but find that they have released the DVD in 1.33:1. All DVDs are R2 unless stated otherwise.

    In some cases Kine Weekly has not had specific aspect ratio details but has either listed such films again as “Widescreen” or left details blank. As the years went by it became increasing common for Kine Weekly to list some films as “widescreen” instead of providing specific ratios. There seem to be a couple of errors, or maybe changes were made during production; for example, CURSE OF FRANKENSTEIN is listed as Hammerscope and HIGH TIDE AT NOON is listed as being in VistaVision.

    There are three films listed as 1.33:1. Two of these were productions for the Children’s Film Foundation (CFF). These films were shown only to children at “Saturday Morning Pictures” film shows and so were exceptions outside of traditional cinema presentations. Nevertheless, depending on the cinema, they were probably cropped for presentation. Detail on the other 1.33:1 film BLACK ICE is lacking but it was unlikely to have been presented in 1.33:1 in 1957/58 (Kine Weekly never referred to 1.37:1).

    I’m not sure what to make of I ACCUSE!, THE ANGRY HILLS and especially TOM THUMB as being listed in “Widescope”. I ACCUSE and THE ANGRY HILLS both appear to have been theatrically shown in 2.35:1 and the US trailer for the latter states “CinemaScope” although it seems that not every country included a CinemaScope logo on posters for both films. TOM THUMB never seems to have been shown 2.35:1.
     
  15. Bob Furmanek

    Bob Furmanek Insider
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    That's excellent research Doug and thank you very much for your invaluable contributions.

    Let's hope the right people pay attention!
     
  16. John Hodson

    John Hodson Producer

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    Douglas; The Snorkel is presented at 1.66:1 on Sony's R1 disc, The Horse's Mouth is 1.66:1 on Criterion DVD, Carlton-Browne of The F.O. is 1.66:1 on Lions Gate R1 DVD. Room at The Top is 1.66:1 on Network's R2 DVD.
     
  17. Vahan_Nisanain

    Vahan_Nisanain Supporting Actor

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    Studios still falling for the "post-1953 full-screen British films were always matted at 1.66:1" myth, sadly.
     
  18. Charles Smith

    Charles Smith Extremely Talented Member
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    Hell, 1.66:1 seems to be the new hot trend right here with American titles!
     
  19. haineshisway

    haineshisway Producer

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    Just so I can watch Bob Furmanek's head explode :)

    "Mr. Lime" has posted this in the now-closed Kino thread:

    "And one last note on MARTY:
    The 1.33/1.37 aspect ratio for MARTY is what MGM, the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences and the film’s director,Delbert Mann consider the correct aspect ratio... and Kino did not release a zoomed in master as some have falsely accused Kino of doing. The release has been one of the KLSC top 5 or 6 best sellers and we haven't heard a complaint from anyone who's purchased or viewed the blu-ray or the DVD."
     
  20. John Hodson

    John Hodson Producer

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    MisterLime on another 'farewell tour' then? I'm sorry, but if any proof were needed, good riddance...
     
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