Aspect Ratio Documentation (2 Viewers)

[EddieLarkin]

Most of the 1.78:1 discs are opened up, rather than cropped, so it may be fair to give them a pass. The 2:55 'Scope films on the other hand are cropped.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

I've just re-read the article, a bit more in-depth this time.

Phew!

I cannot even begin to imagine the hours of effort and the lakes of blood, sweat and tears that went into that, Bob.

A quick question on Creature from the Black Lagoon, as I appear to have missed this at the time.

You've found it was 2.00:1, printed at 1.75:1 and the Blu-ray being 1.85:1.

I have a 2.00:1 screen and my projector can mask to 2.00:1.

Is the Blu-ray Disc the full width, or pan & scan? Can I mask the Blu-ray Disc to 2.00:1 and get the OAR?
Many thanks.

Steve W

The 35mm prints of CREATURE are full-frame 1.37.

I've cropped the current transfer to 2:1 and it looks great. In fact, you can see the DP tilting the camera throughout to keep the actors heads in frame on the medium shots. Even the long dolly shot into the fossilized hand shows him tilting to make it work in 2:1. That was clearly the original intent.

If you use this RP40 chart on your screen as a guide, you can use masking on your display to crop to the precise height for 2:1.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

HOBSON'S CHOICE began filming in July 1953 so it's right at the period of transition in the UK. British Lion reported in December that films were being composed for 1.8.

I don't have any futher info on this one.

Calling Tom Crossplot or Doug Raynes!

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Creature in 2:1

 

[Brandon Conway]

I've thought about that too, such as the 1.85 films that are 1.78 on DVD, or the 2.66 ones that are 2.55.

What do others feel?

I've never been much of a stickler for the 1.78-1.85 difference. Warner does it for every flat widescreen film they've ever released that was intended for 1.75 or 1.85, so we're talking thousands of titles from 1953 to present day.

As detailed by others above, the 2.66 Cinemascope films were never released theatrically that way due to the soundtrack, so 2.55 should be correct even if the original framing was 2.66. Call it a quirk of getting the new format kinks out in the early years.

The 2.55 films presented as 2.35 is far more wrong, but not as wrong as an outright pan & scan to 1.33.

I like the Gold Star for the perfect releases idea, while giving fainter praise to the widescreen but altered from ideal presentation releases.

 

[Patrick McCart]

I think 1.78:1 issues of 1.85:1 and 1.75:1 films is "close enough" to not be discounted, but not 1.78:1 of 1.66:1 films.

Maybe just add an asterisk.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Okay, thanks for the input. I'll change it now.

 

[RolandL]

As you say, CinemaScope was originally designed to be shown with an entirely separate print for the soundtrack, à la Cinerama, allowing a full 2.66:1 AR. This was later dropped in favour of magnetic stripes on the film print itself, making 2.55:1 the first official CinemaScope ratio. By that point though, the three aforementioned films had already been shot at the previously planned 2.66:1 (and were thus shown with a slightly cropped image).

I'm sure most of the early CinemaScope films had a 2.66:1 AR on the negative. But I don't think you would want to see the rounded corners on the film print. See the full 2.66:1 of The Robe below. I would not call the 2.55:1 on the Blu-ray cropped.

 

[EddieLarkin]

I'm sure they all did yes. Which ratio they were composed for is what is important. CinemaScope was originally planned for 2.66:1 projection, so that would have been the compositional ratio before magnetic sound was decided as the better option. Obviously later films are correct at 2.55:1, despite being 2.66:1 on the negative.

What's really needed is some documentation that shows when magnetic sound was adopted as the standard, and then to compare that to the shooting dates for the 3 films.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

That date is in the article.

 

[EddieLarkin]

Ah ha! So, May 12th, long after the three films started shooting. That makes DEMETRIUS AND THE GLADIATORS the first 2.55:1 film, which began May 25th. See, it's that simple!

 

[Bob Furmanek]

 

[RolandL]

To determine the correct aspect ratio (the one intended by the director and cinematographer while composing each shot) you have to look at the studio policy and date of production.

2/24 The Robe3/09 How to marry a millionaire4/06 Beneath the 12 Mile Reef5/12 AR changed to 2.55:1

These three titles were one to three months into production when the studio policy changed to 2.55:1. I'm guessing the director and cinematographer didn't make any changes as to how they composed each shot with a change of only 4%. I don't think they felt their compositions were going to be cropped when released.

 

[Vahan_Nisanain]

Bob, I always thought The Robe began filming after HTMAM.

 

[Dr Griffin]

Thanks for the comprehensive article, Bob. The poster artwork got me in the mood to look for some of these films I've never seen. I also appreciated the list of available titles on DVD and Blu-ray. Dammit, Shark River is unavailable!

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Bob, I always thought The Robe began filming after HTMAM.

And we bust another myth!

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Thanks for the comprehensive article, Bob. The poster artwork got me in the mood to look for some of these films I've never seen. I also appreciated the list of available titles on DVD and Blu-ray. Dammit, Shark River is unavailable!

If you are in the New York area, I know someone with a 35mm SuperCinecolor print.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

2/24 The Robe3/09 How to marry a millionaire4/06 Beneath the 12 Mile Reef5/12 AR changed to 2.55:1

These three titles were one to three months into production when the studio policy changed to 2.55:1. I'm guessing the director and cinematographer didn't make any changes as to how they composed each shot with a change of only 4%. I don't think they felt their compositions were going to be cropped when released.

At the time of principal photography, CinemaScope was intended to be shown 2.66:1 and that's how they were composed.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

2/24 The Robe
3/09 How to marry a millionaire
4/06 Beneath the 12 Mile Reef
5/12 AR changed to 2.55:1

These three titles were one to three months into production when the studio policy changed to 2.55:1. I'm guessing the director and cinematographer didn't make any changes as to how they composed each shot with a change of only 4%. I don't think they felt their compositions were going to be cropped when released.

Bob, I always thought The Robe began filming after HTMAM.

And we bust another myth!

From widescreenmuseum.com: [test]How to Marry a Millionaire released on the coat tails of The Robe, it was begun after the latter and completed before it.[/test]

 

[Yorkshire]

Bob, thanks for the information on Creature...

For Hobson's Choice, looking at the titles I doubt very much it could stand cropping to anything tighter than 1.66, but I might be wrong. Also the 1.37:1 version will probably (rightly) be slightly windowboxed from the original source, so there may be a little more room.

Steve W