Are We Raising a Generation of Wimps? (1 Viewer)

[Yee-Ming]

Gotta agree. Although I'd say in this country, parents of young children today seem to have also taken on board this "enlightened philosophy" of not smacking their unruly kids, with the effect that their little terrors run riot in public places far too often. A common example is in restaurants, where the rest of us want to sit down to a nice meal, not listen to screaming kids at play. I am waiting for the day a kid running around bumps into a waiter carrying a tray full of hot soups or tea, with the result that said hot liquids coming cascading down on the spoilt little brat. (Fortunately, our tort laws here aren't like those in the US...)

 

[Carl Miller]

This has nothing to do with parents not smacking their kids. It has to do with parents not bothering to do anything to teach their kids proper behavior. Not by teaching, not by reasoning, not by hitting and increasingly not even by example...as even adults are becoming less and less civil.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Most of the new adults are the unruly children we remember from a decade ago. They didn't have a positive example of parenting in their childhood, so why should their children be any different?
I was in the silent study area library today when two twenty-year-olds come in, sit down, and have a whole lengthy discussion like it was their own personal coffee shop.
The newest revelation is the ones who get indignant when you call them on their rudeness. The people in the apartment above my bedroom blast music so loud the bass rattles the walls. I don't know who taught them that was acceptable behavior for a shared building, but as I look for a new place after my lease expires I don't see anything all that much better. Both of my roommates have inconsiderate neighoring apartments as well. Unfortunately, such selfish behavior is more the norm than the exception any more.

 

[Shane Martin]

I agree 100%.

 

[Carl Miller]

I agree Adam. I live in a house, and had music problems with my neighbors teenage sons. So loud it shook my walls and windows, and sounded as if the music was playing in our home.

The kids turned it down for 5 minutes whenever we complained and then turned it up again. The parents refused to do anything about it. The mother of the kids actually said "I can't take away their music, it's important to them".

I had to get down and dirty with them and threaten to report their illegal deck, which was built without a permit, a CO and without notice to the county for tax purposes.

That's how low and uncivil some people are today. That our quality of life was totally ruined for a year meant nothing to these people. It was only the threat of causing harm to them that resulted in us receiving what should have been a simple common courtesy.

 

[Yee-Ming]

Hear hear. It is really strange when you call someone on what objectively is pretty rude or selfish behaviour, yet they act as if you'd just done something horrible and they were innocent victims of your nasty loutish behaviour. Or put another way, they seem to have this "entitlement" mindset, that they're entitled to do as they please with no regard for others, and when you try to interfere, you're the lout. Sigh...

 

[Ryan Wishton]

Many good points. Some a little overdone for me, but I get the basis. I was slapped a few times, but beatings just give me the creeps. I was never beat. I got a few slaps on the ass, had things taken away here and there, and that sort of thing. I dont think I was overly bad though. I was a pretty good kid. I had my moments, but overall I wasn't really a bad kid.

My experiences below...

When I was growing up, many of the parents took responsibility. Everything was shared and many of the parents around our neighborhood (the babyboomers now) seemed to watched out for the kids when needed, didnt overcontrol them, but also didnt let them get away with being pure assholes. We all went to each others houses and hung out during the days. We were controlled when needed as well as allowed to be kids and make mistakes. We werent abused, but werent allowed to get away with crap either. We were taught to be careful, but werent babied for every single thing. If we didnt achieve at someone we werent good at, we were told it was ok and to try something else. If your not good at a specific sport or activity. So what? Cut your losses, be disappointed for a moment, and then move on and find something you are good at. It's way worse to be fed your good at something even if our arent. Then you waste too much time doing something your not good at and then get wiped out in the real world eventually. All that time you could have been doing something you were good at. We were taught to not be a bully, but we were also taught not to take crap from bullies if unacceptable. I was allowed to fight back if someone was beating on me. If I started the fight and got punched, then I wasnt defended. I only started maybe one or two fights and now I know I deserved to be punched. I think it's awful that you have kids nowadays who have to be terrified to fight back against bullies. I would tell my kid the same thing I was told. If someone is beating on you, dont just sit there and take it. "Go tell a teacher" is a famous one. When did this ever work? Tried that one myself. Got immediately ignored. Mother called the school a few times. Each time also got immediately ignored. So, when I got a snowball thrown in my face for no reason (I swear to god it was for nothing I know of) by this one kid, I politely removed my backpack and made his funky yellow teeth even funkier and even added some color. This was the last resort. No one should have to put up with that kind of abuse daily.

I got a slap here and there, but it was never what I would call horrible abuse. Getting thrown through a window while glass scars your skin, beat in the face with multiple punches, and being tied to a bed and beaten like a friend of mine was for not picking up his book off the corner step. That was abuse. Of course after I told my mother and brother about this at 13, it was reported. I thank god I had a mother who listened to me. She even let him come stay with us for several years until we left for college which was great of her. She treated him just as she treated me. She treated him just like a son. There was no favortism between us or my other brother. We were treated good, but still expected to show respect. Very cool kid. I was actually shocked he turned out halfway sane. He was always helpful. We shared the chores, etc. He was a little emotionally unbalanced at times as can be expected, but he was never what I could call a bad person or someone who I didnt want around. I loved the kid like a brother. I can remember feeling so terrible at the time. I remember me and 4 or 5 other guys at 13 wanted to go and beat up the father. We thought we were tough I guess. Its a long time ago. We didnt end up doing it, but we seriously considered it. Some of the parents found out about it though and that was the end of it. I think we saw The Outsiders recently before this.

Nowadays, it seems like many parents have no concern for any of the kids (even their own) and only look forward to attending their next yoga class or gossip phone session.

It also seems like parents arent taking any responsibility for themselves whatsoever and placing all their attention on commodities like Dr. Phil. When did we become such a brain dead society who needs to pay a man millions upon millions of dollars to tell us "show discipline as well as love" Um, I think parents should know they need to teach their kids love as well as discipline. If not, you shouldnt be a parent. I believe he is a good person, but selling power bars, love advice, and advice on just about anything makes his a little suspect to me. I mean I am into health and his power bars arent even healthy. Just a typical dead non-cold-processed candy bar. Not that this has anything to do with anything, but whatever. Child advice from a man who set up his oldest son with a job as well as a million dollar home. Both have extensive trust funds as well as college funds and never have to work again if they choose not to. Now, this has nothing to do with his kids really. I had the pleasure to meet them once or twice (the kids I mean) and they were both very cool, polite guys. Guys who you would like to have as friends. Dr. Phil means well, but he is also a business man who will throw his name on a multitude of products to make sure his family becomes even richer. Nothing wrong with that really. Most of us would do the same thing. My only point is that people really need to look at the whole picture and not just the shiny wrapper.

My aunt (a babyboomer who had her last kid late) for example always gets called to take her kid (14 right now) as well as the whole group everywhere. The movies, the games, school, you name it. She doesn't mind this mostly, but does get irritated sometimes. She recently had surgery and isnt suppose to be driving. None (not one) of the other parents in this group of 6 or 7 kids even offered to share the driving or other responsibilities. Whatever happened to sharing the carpool?

Anyways, not every single case of murder or whatever is the parents fault. Some people are just born nuts or snap. Serial killers for example. But, I do agree that things have gotten way out of control when it comes to rudeness and disrespect.

My cousin raised "free spirits" They are some of the most disgustingly obnoxious children I have ever had the encounter of seeing. They continually burp and fart at family holidays. They are rude to their elders. One even kicked my 60 year old aunt in the leg causing her a clot. She refused to have family parties after this. I don't blame her. Seriously, you wouldnt even want to know these kids. I am not for beatings personally, but these kids I wouldnt care. I hope some of the other kids they pick on put them in their place one day soon. I would never defend these unruly beasts just because I was related to them. I would definately understand why some other kids would beat them up after getting beat on. If I could revert back to a child for a couple days and help these picked on kids beat them up myself, I would do it in a minute.

To tell you the truth, these things worry me to some extent. Us older guys and girls should be worried about this. Why? Bastards like that are going to be the ones in charge of us when we are senior citizens. I prefer a quick death from what I have seen personally. I dont want these crazy crackpots in charge of me for years if im still here. Now thats frightening.

 

[MarkHastings]

As much as we can debate punishing children, I think we can all (at least somewhat) agree on the differences between beating/abuse and firm discipline.

I agree that there is no call for beating the crap out of a child. The intent is not to harm, but to scare. Pain and harm won't correct the childs behavior, but fear of something bad, CAN help to discourage it.

The problem is, what constitutes that line between a corrective slap and abuse? I think the one thing that is mucking up this debate (no offense to those who believe this way) is the ones who think that ANY such behavior is abusive. I think a lot of those arguments are seen from the point of view of abuse and they can't visualize effective punishments.

There has to be a line so that people don't cross it, because I do think there are MANY effective ways to use fear as a deterrent to bad behavior.

And the other thing is, (as was mentioned) not every method is going to work the same with every child. I don't believe the "I was never slapped and I turned out ok" & the "I was beaten and I am fine" comments mean much because every child is different. And also, I don't always believe people when they say "I turned out fine"

 

[MickeS]

So why not beat the crap out of the kid? Wouldn't that be even more effective then? Or is it only because the one who did it would be more likely to be punished for it?

I just don't see the difference, other than in how long the pain lasts. But the more pain, the better, right?

 

[MarkHastings]

MickeS, in training of dogs, they prove that a quick smack on the snout doesn't hurt the dog, but it puts a fear in the dog that can be VERY effective in training. Any other sort of abuse to the dog (like kicking or hitting) won't effectively stop the dogs behavior because he/she won't associate the abuse with bad behavior. And there lies the problem. It has nothing to do with pain. Pain is not an effective deterant. While there is a slight element of pain, it's more the fear than the pain that is what makes punishment effective.

Once the pain is greater than the fear, you've lost its effectiveness.

IMHO, this is why both extremes are VERY bad for raising children. On the one hand, the parent that beats a child, is doing wrong because the parent is just delivering pain and that won't correct the childs behavior. In fact, it will only agitate the child and make things worse.

and on the other side, the parent that does NOTHING, is not sending a message of fear to deter the child from bad behavior. Without fear, the child will do as he/she pleases.