Are we mad?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Mark Kalzer, Oct 3, 2001.

  1. Mark Kalzer

    Mark Kalzer Second Unit

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    I am asking this, because on more than one occasion, I have found my commitment to OAR only presentations challenged by friends, and even family members.
    Example: In school, I am taking a film studies course. One of the movies we watched recently was Batman. (It was an example of unique lighting) Unfortunantly, the screening of it in class was a typical Pan n'Scan, VHS mono presentation. I couldn't even understand the dialogue most of the time. My solution? Go out to video stores and rent a Widescreen Dolby Digital DVD of it and watch it at home! Surely this doesn't make me mad, does it? (I'm sorry, we also watched The Telltale Heart!) My friends sure thought so. They thought it was ludicrous to actually pay to rent the DVD when we're already watching it in class for free. My only response being, "but....it's....pan n'scan. [​IMG]" They think I'm crazy.
    Example 2: My Dad doesn't have a problem with watching Widescreen DVDs, but also doesn't mind Pan n'Scan either. He frequently gets up on my back for not wanting to watch VHS tape, or movies on TMN. He thinks I need to "not be so stuck up." When a movie we want to watch isn't available of DVD, he'll gladly rent it on VHS pan n'scan. I never got an opportunity until recently to watch American Beauty because of this. (He rented it on tape before the DVD was out) When Galaxy Quest came on TMN, he wondered why I wasn't enthusiastic about taping it on VHS. Well, it's simply because it's Pan n' Scan, Pro Logic, and worse of all, VHS!
    But after the attacks on my commitments pass, I always come back to here! The HTF! Where people will make a big deal about a certain DVD not having enough bass. VHS? Hah. An ancient format. Around here, movie watching is more than a time waster. It's a whole experience. Presentation quality must be as high as possible.
    Sadly, most people will just shrug everything we spend thousands of dollars on, shrug artistic vision, simply because. "it's only a movie." Even those who do recognize the advantage of Widescreen, will ignore it because they are saving money with VHS, or that the movie "isn't artistic enough." (One instance in Goldeneye was ruined in Pan n'Scan because it looks like James Bond just says "Vodka Martini, Shaken Not Stirred" in the the middle of a conversation for no apparant reason, because the waiter was chopped off the screen. But is Goldeneye qualified as an artistic movie?) The question is, is it us that are mad?
     
  2. Rob Tomlin

    Rob Tomlin Producer

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    Us? Mad? NO!!! Its THEM! THEM I TELL YOU! The Non OAR zealots are the MAD ONES!
    Well, I'm off to see my psychologist. He is trying to help me with my OAR addiction! He is trying to make me watch pan and scan versions of Ben Hur and Lawrence of Arabia as therapy! [​IMG]
     
  3. Brad_W

    Brad_W Screenwriter

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    LOL at ben-hur and LOA in Lame and scan! I just recently replied to a post stating how much controversy the ben-hur movie caused.
    Women's rights when out the window on that one. Well, maybe not, but it sure does date itself.
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    "I was born to murder the world." -Nix (Lord of Illusions)
    My Home Page http://www.geocities.com/masternix/DVD.html
     
  4. DaveF

    DaveF Moderator
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  5. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Executive Producer

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  6. TomRS4

    TomRS4 Stunt Coordinator

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    Preferring OAR over pan and scam is a step closer to sanity. People who prefer pan and scam because it eliminates those funny black bars are the ones that should be fitted with jackets with extra long sleeves.
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    Tempus Fugit
     
  7. JasonK

    JasonK Supporting Actor

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    I asked myself that same question in my film class in college. Watching P+S films on VHS was painful. Granted, a lot of the films we watched were from the pre-widescreen days (ie Citizen Kane, The Third Man, etc.) but Star Wars P+S??? C'mon!
     
  8. Dome Vongvises

    Dome Vongvises Lead Actor

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    This is extremely strange. I must live in the one place in the universe where I'm met and greeted by people who like OAR. And I'm in the middle of Lexington, KY to boot, the land where Full screen videos collect dust on the shelves.
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    "I don't know, Marge. Trying is the first step towards failure." - Homer J. Simpson
    My DVD Collection
     
  9. David Brashear

    David Brashear Stunt Coordinator

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    I can't believe that your film studies professor would have you watch a film in pan and scan, let alone VHS. How can you even properly study the films in this condition. I mean when you take an english class, do they remove half the text in the novels you read? Have you brought this to the attention of your professor? If not, I would do so. By the way, I'm taking a film course right now and all the films are projected in their OAR.
     
  10. Barry_B_B

    Barry_B_B Second Unit

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    No fool! We 'aint mad! Once you SEE what you been missin' with P&S, hard as hell to go back! Keep my blades razah sharp and PITY THE FOOL who try'n make me! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  11. Bill Catherall

    Bill Catherall Screenwriter

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    When I took a film course in college all films, clips, samples, etc. were projected in OAR. My professor and all TAs were adamant about proper presentation. At the end of the course we had to right up a paper on a movie of our choice. The one restriction was that we had to have seen it on the big screen in its OAR. We were then allowed to rent it so we could view it with more scrutiny. It's good that you're disturbed that your teacher isn't presenting the films properly. When you start studying the cinematography of film will he/she continue this P&S "censoring?" I'd confront your teacher about this.
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    Bill [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Rob Willey

    Rob Willey Screenwriter

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  13. Michael Dueppen

    Michael Dueppen Stunt Coordinator

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  14. Greg O' Connel

    Greg O' Connel Stunt Coordinator

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    I fail to see how only wanting widescreen makes us "zealots" or "stuck-up". Isn't it basic human nature that, if you like something, to want it in its orignal version? New Coke, for example. [​IMG]
    Personally, I think that if the terms "widescreen" and "full screen" were abandoned, it would go a long way to mass acceptance of OAR films. Widescreen makes it seem like a different version than the standard. J6P sees it and wants the "standard" version he's used to seeing on VHS and HBO, so he picks the P&S version. Widescreen isn't differnt or non-standard, it's the original theatrical version. It is the standard, not pan & scan. How many consumers would buy the DVD with "Altered Version" plastered on the top instead of the DVD with "Original Version"?
    Also, how about changing the traditional P&S intro screen from:
    "This film has been modified from its original version. It has been formatted to fit this screen."
    to
    "This film has been altered from it's original version. The left and right sides of the picture have been removed."
    True, that doesn't tell the whole story of the evils of P&S, but it does partly explain what is being "modified".
    It's simply a matter of education. It's easy to pigeon hole people who like P&S as Joe Six Pack simpletons, but up until about a year and a half ago, I preferred pan & scan, even though I have never lived in a run-down trailer park with my 10 kids, 6 dogs, and a couch in the front yard. Just make it clear to consumers that widescreen is the original version and "full screen" is altered and inferior, and they'll be converted.
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    [​IMG] "Columbia House - we were built to irritate America - one person at a time!" [​IMG]
    [Edited last by Greg O' Connel on October 04, 2001 at 03:28 AM]
     
  15. Joseph Bolus

    Joseph Bolus Cinematographer

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    THE BOTTOM LINE is if you're not viewing the movie in its OAR, then you're not viewing the movie. You're simply viewing an "interpretation" of the movie.
    At some point in the next five years, as 16:9 monitors and HDTV finally become more commonplace, the "masses" may finally comprehend this simple fact.
    Or at least, one can hope!
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    Joseph
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    "As a matter of cosmic history, it has always been easier to destroy, than to create."
     
  16. Tom M

    Tom M Stunt Coordinator

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    All the Batman films, including FX, were shot 1.33:1 then soft matted to 1.85:1. So, they're actually full frame, not Pan & Scan.
    Panning and Scanning does NOT remove the sides or, in fact, any part of the picture. The entire picture is there, you just can't see all of it at the same time.
    Therefore, the message on VHS tapes should read:
    "This film's image has been modified from it's original version, it will be shown one section at a time with blurring effects when going from one portion of the image to the other."
    Wonder what J6P would think of that? [​IMG]
    P.S.: NEVER let anyone tell you you are crazy for perferring OAR. THEY are crazy for not perferring it!
     
  17. Adam Tyner

    Adam Tyner Screenwriter

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  18. Mark Zimmer

    Mark Zimmer Producer

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    "It's not I who am crazy, it's I who am MAD!"
    --Captain Ren [​IMG]
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    "This movie has warped my fragile little mind."
     
  19. Mark_TS

    Mark_TS Screenwriter

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    quote:
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    ... I'm in the middle of Lexington, KY to boot, the land where Full screen videos collect dust on the shelves....
    ------------
    nice to know theres at least ONE civilized enclave in the entire country.
    [​IMG]
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  20. Dave Koch

    Dave Koch Stunt Coordinator

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