'Apocalypse Now' voted greatest film of the last 25 years (1 Viewer)

[Steve Christou]

He knows the Sight & Sound critics are seriously credentialed. Right, Steve? JB

Jack, if these critics voted for Coppola's magnificent Apocalypse Now as best film of the past 25 years than they must know something.
It's certainly the best Vietnam film ever [Jack tries to protest], Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket was great, but it isn't even the 2nd best Vietnam flick, Platoon beats that IMO.
Blade Runner as best SF film of the past 25 years? Ironic considering critics and audiences trashed it when it first came out. It's a great film though I prefer the original 1982 version with v.o.

 

[chung_sotheby]

Steve, correct me if I am wrong, but wasnt the original theatrical version the one with the voice over? I thought that the theatrical release had the v.o. and happy ending added on because of the intitial screening responses. If I remember correctly, there were a few really bad pre-release screenings of the film, in which the people attending complained that it was too murkey and bleak, so the studio delayed the opening and forced Ridley Scott to add on the happy ending (the one where Harrison Ford and Sean Young are in the car) and the voiceover. I believe that the non-v.o./happy ending version was the director's cut which was released a few years after, when Blade Runner had already been established as a sci-fi classic.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Of course, that comment is seriously flawed!

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

I always thought Steve was more a Green Beret kind of guy.....

 

[Lew Crippen]

Jack, I think that Stone is one of those directors that one loves or thinks is seriously flawed, even though occasionally brilliant.

I’m in the second camp.

 

[Steve Christou]

Chung, yep! [not sure why I said 'yep' but there you go, I'm a man of few words, I'm the Anti-Seth Paxton). [kidding Seth].
Hmmm I think directors should be stopped from tampering with their back catalogue and screwing up film history [George Lucas take a bow], they really should try and get it right first time, if they can't, tough.
Apocalypse Now didn't really need a freakin' Redux edition, it was brilliant the way it was, so was Blade Runner IMO. I hope the original theatrical editions don't disappear forever, that would be a tragedy.

Of course, that comment is seriously flawed!

Jack, which part? All of it?

 

[Seth Paxton]

You know something that rarely gets mentioned in regards to a film's credentials? The fact that a film is always brought up as a comparison point when trying to prove that some other film is better.
The very fact than any Viet Nam film is compared to Apoc Now or that the discussion constantly comes back to Apoc Now tells us that even people who see it as 2nd, 3rd, etc. recognize the power of the film.
Had Platoon or FMJ been on this list rather than AN, we certainly would have heard a ton of people immediately bring up it's name in the discussion.
I think it's also a sign of how good Wings of Desire is (or at least how affecting on some people it is).
Steve, I believe the anti-Seth post would actually be a non-post. Yours is simply a pseudo-anti-Seth post, some simulation of one.
(or maybe if there was some way to actually remove words from the thread as you post...?)

 

[Steve Christou]

Actually mine was an Anti-Pseudo-Seth Post, hows that? Rolls off the tongue better. [groans]
Seth I'm just messing, I love your posts, sometimes I wish I could put bookmarks on them so I can finish reading 'em at my leisure later on [kidding kidding].

 

[Rob Tomlin]

Regarding which is the best Viet Nam film, Full Metal Jacket is the one that I consider to be the best. It is number 5 on my all time favorites list. However, Apocalypse Now is number 8, so I obviously consider them both to be great movies, with neither being "clearly superior" to the other.
That being said, Platoon does not appear anywhere in my top 100. I simply found it to be overly melodramatic. I guess that I am one who is in the second camp that Lew talked about when it comes to Stone..."seriously flawed, even though occasionally brilliant".

 

[Steve Christou]

Come on Rob, 'Platoon' is the ultimate 'grunts in Vietnam' epic, and partially autobiographical, which is more than you can say for the other two, 'Apocalypse Now' was a surreal journey, 'Full Metal Jacket' showed the dehumanization process of turning soldeirs into killing machines, but for in the jungle 'you are there' war horror, no film beats 'Platoon'.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

Just because it is partially autobiographical does not mean that it wasn't overly melodramatic!
For example, when Willem Dafoe's character is trying to make it out of the jungle to be rescued by the helicopter, only to "just miss" it, and then raising his hands towards the sky and helicopter as to say "save me lord, save me" just makes me want to :rolleyes.
There are other scenes that bothered me that way as well. I don't deny that Platoon does do a very good job of giving you that "you are there" feel, but that just wasn't enough to make me consider it a "great" film.
It has been about 3 years since I last watched this film, so it may be time to give it another shot.

 

[Holadem]

For example, when Willem Dafoe's character is trying to make it out of the jungle to be rescued by the helicopter, only to "just miss" it, and then raising his hands towards the sky and helicopter as to say "save me lord, save me" just makes me want to

I saw it as reaching for the choppers.
I much prefer Platoon to AP. I saw the latter at a time when my interest in movies was of a different nature. Consequently, it didn't do much for me. I will watch it again.
As far as war movies are concerned, Saving Private Ryan is the best, IMO. There is nothing subtle about war, and no movie shows it better.
--
Holadem

 

[Brian E]

As far as war movies are concerned, Saving Private Ryan is the best, IMO. There is nothing subtle about war, and no movie shows it better.

One of the best, maybe. The best? No IMO.

In all honesty I can't pick a "best" war film. There are to many great ones that I like for different reasons.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Much as I like Blade Runner - don't believe it deserves to be on that list.

Also where is 2001?

Not having seen all the movies it's interesting that ones I do recognize are depressing and violent in nature. Can't an upbeat movie like Shawshank ever make such a list?

 

[Holadem]

Also where is 2001?

It's 34 years old.

--
Holadem

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Not having seen all the movies it's interesting that ones I do recognize are depressing and violent in nature. Can't an upbeat movie like Shawshank ever make such a list?

Haven't you heard? Only downbeat and depressing movies make for compelling cinema.
Of all the Vietnam flicks, I've yet to find one that somehow captures all the facets of war we've come to know. Personally, I rank Full Metal Jacket the highest only because Apocalypse Now had that awful second half. Platoon is great, but nowhere near compelling as the other two.
Is it just my imagination, or does it seem like Kubrick makes his films to look like documentaries? Every time you watch a film, even The Shining, it doesn't seem like you're watching a movie, but a documentary, where you are something of an observer. Or I could just be on crack.

 

[Steve Christou]

Is it just my imagination, or does it seem like Kubrick makes his films to look like documentaries?

Kubrick's films do have that detached cold emotionless style, when was the last time you cried during a Kubrick film? His films are technically brilliant, but do they have heart? His most moving, emotional film is Spartacus and thats the one he had least control over.
My favorite Kubrick film is 2001, and the most emotional character in that is HAL.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Is it just my imagination, or does it seem like Kubrick makes his films to look like documentaries? Every time you watch a film, even The Shining, it doesn't seem like you're watching a movie, but a documentary, where you are something of an observer

Actually it is a rather well-known trait of all Kubrick films, the cold detatchment. He has been both loved and hated for such a tone in his films. People have also taken the detatchment to imply pessimism, though Kubrick often denied such an attitude from his films. (he describes Shining as optimistic because it implies life after death - yeah, that makes it a happy film ).
I took a film course on Kubrick and got the chance to analyze his work even closer. One visual aspect that I have mentioned around here before is the repeated use of a teloscopic lens to shoot a scene from much farther away. This flattens out the depth of field (near and far objects appear close together). You find this shot used over and over again in nearly every film. It certainly has the effect of removing the viewer, however subtlely it may be. (example - medium shots of Gen. Turgenson sitting at the war room table, or the prez for that matter. The camera is sitting clear across the table from them and is zoomed back in so that the are in a medium shot. Also note the use with marching soldiers in Barry Lyndon and FMJ, the last man appears to be just a few feet from the front man though they obviously are not.)
Also, Kubrick was big on camera movement (specifically tracking shots), including being the first to employ the Steady-Cam (in The Shining). Of course now we often associate the moving camera with documentaries and cinema verite, so in this case the effect is a "you are there" documentary feeling.
Combine these 2 common shots and his work does take on that removed, indifferent observer tone.

 

[Steve Christou]

Another sort of Kubrick trademark is that look he makes his actors do, you know head slightly down, eyes looking straight ahead, creepy smile.. Alex, Jack Torrance, Gomer Pyle, Dave Bowman... [or is it just me? Hey I'm doing that right now!]

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Steve Christou said:

Another sort of Kubrick trademark is that look he makes his actors do, you know head slightly down, eyes looking straight ahead, creepy smile.

You know what? You're right.

Does anybody have any clue why the second half/ending to Apocalypse Now seems kind of blah?