Anyone play DVD's @ Reference level ?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by steveGamble, Sep 7, 2006.

  1. steveGamble

    steveGamble Stunt Coordinator

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    Does anyone EVER Play Movies at or around reference level ?
    What Model of Subwoofer or (sub's) can handle that kind of out put ?

    I'm trying to create chest pounding bass, in my sealed HT room 11 x 20 x 7'
    and.. I want to know what sub.I need to play at 100+ dbs ??
    Just for that once in a while ..MI-3.. type movie.

    Panasonic ae900
    106" Da-Lite High Power[​IMG]
    Yamaha 5890 ,7.1 , 140wt/ch
    PolkAudio RTi series 8 speakers. bi-wired.
    SVS 25-31plus / Velodyne CHT 10 (stacked)
    Panasonic s77s upconverting dvd player.

    Highly recomend all above, but need more impact bass.?
     
  2. Alon Goldberg

    Alon Goldberg Screenwriter

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    SVS PB12–Plus/2 [​IMG]
     
  3. RichardH

    RichardH Supporting Actor

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    With a sealed room you'll have a lot easier time reaching reference levels. How high can you go now w/ your SVS/Velo combo? Also, that Velo will run out of steam a lot sooner than the SVS, so you may be short-changing yourself by combining them.
     
  4. SherardP

    SherardP Stunt Coordinator

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    PB 12 plus 2, should make you cream.........or better yet, in a dual setup. All of that bass should beat your clothes off. Im using a similar setup as well, Polk Audio RTi12 biamped off my Sony 7100es/Outlaw Audio M2200 monoblock per speaker, CSi5 center, FXi3 surrounds and Rti4s in the rear. I have a pb12 plus 2 myself and the bass is unreal, anyways let us know what you come up with
     
  5. steveGamble

    steveGamble Stunt Coordinator

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    I can't get anywhere near reference now.
    driver Bottoms out. That's with the family watching a dvd, at what I consider a pretty whimpy level.
    I may need to calibrate my system better ?
    But...Bottoming out,, is bottoming out , regardless of calibration.
    The Velo cht 10, NEVER bottoms out or noticibly distorts, to my untrained ear.
    But it also doesn't go Near as Low as the SVS, which sounds nice, But has NO punch at all.
    I am running out of room, in this small room for a third sub.
    So I'm thinking of upgrading (I've had this sub set up since June)
    But, I was looking for advice from Sub owners who like loud movies.
    Everyone said my combo would shake the room, but it is not impressing me or my wife, or the kids.
    I do get to 90dbs though, but that just does not feel loud for action movies.
    I'd love to go 100+ for 2 hours, just once in a while.
     
  6. steveGamble

    steveGamble Stunt Coordinator

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    The one thing about combining these two is that the velo provides the boomy upper bass, that I miss with the SVS.
    They actually sound WAY better together.
    SVS PB 12/2
    I know this should in theory provide aprox 65% more output.?
    In Real life does it Kick the crap out of a svs 25-31 plus.

    Ultra 12/2 at 2K us plus currency exchange, shipping to Canada etc.. might be over budget at this moment, ALMOST finished paying for my new room,,, not quite though.

    But IF I heard it shake, and thunder, I probably couldn't get my visa out quick enough....thank goodness nobody is here to demo one.

    So......PB NSD 12/2 ? Really can handle reference with action DVD's ?
    that would be some pounding.
     
  7. RichardH

    RichardH Supporting Actor

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    Did you experiment w/ placement? You may be fighting bass suckouts at your current location. Being in Canada, you might think about the Axiom EPS-500, or to really go nuts, the EPS-600.
     
  8. SethH

    SethH Cinematographer

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    That's what I was going to ask too. In a sealed room your size you should be able to get very close to reference with no trouble at all. I would call SVS before buying another sub. If you're sitting in a null then no amount of sub is really going to help until you start moving it around. My guess is that this is a placement and/or calibration issue. I would remove the velodyne from the system and work with the SVS guys on placement and calibration. Once you get that done, if you still feel the need for the velo then add it back in.
     
  9. steveGamble

    steveGamble Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks guys.
    I have contacted SVS....actually may try a driver replacement, just distorts, thwacks, bottoms out way too easy.
    If that doesn't solve anythying, I will probably upgrade.
    But to what ? Not sure, just don't want to keep changing subs.

    I don't have a lot of flexibility in my room, the screen and front speakers cover wall to wall and 24" from floor to 10 inches from ceiling.
    plus Two rows of seating, back wall has projector,+ some equip .
    plus room asthetices is Important.
    hence along door wall, to left front corner of screen is it.
    I can move it along wall, but it is sort'a in a corner and about 7-8 feet from my seat. I can sit right beside it, it doesn't change much.

    I tuned it to 120hz......that helped provide more upper bass.
    phased it in with fronts.
    running hot +3db as well as center+2.5db hot. as well as Rear surrounds +4.5dbs
    Receiver calibrated to 85-90db with test tones. spl meter.
    speakers set to small.
    Bass out to sub....and I have the option bass out to fronts AND sub. (better)
    velo cht 10 volume set to max.
    svs 25-31+ , vloume set to half way 12 o'clock.

    Turn Volume to mostly to -30, but for action DVD's to -25 .....BUT then it sometimes bottoms out in scenes with TOO much bass.

    I'd like to go to -20 with this calibration. Just once in a while :>)
     
  10. douglas-b

    douglas-b Stunt Coordinator

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    Are you saying that your front's, center and rear's are all running "HOT" anywhere from 3 to 4.5 db?

    When you say you have the reciever calibrated to 85-90db..you actually have the needle bouncing past the 85 mark? Everything is running "HOT" and calibrating over the 85 mark?
     
  11. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    What Alon said: SVS-PB-12 Plus/2.
     
  12. steveGamble

    steveGamble Stunt Coordinator

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    I have 8 speakers plus 2 subs in my set up 7.1 surround.

    front center, rear center, and rear surrounds running hot 2.5 to 4.5dbs
    Subs running 3db hot
    Neeedle bouncing past the 85 db mark (test tones) at 00

    and I play most dvd's at -30 or -28.5
    svs to half on dial back of sub
    velo at near max
    both at 120hz

    It does not seem loud at all and my wife does not like it too loud.

    If I calibrate to 75db and don't run anything hot.
    set the EQ to flat 00

    Then crank the receiver to -5 or something it doesn't seem to have the same depth, full rich sound.

    I'd like the room to rumble at 100 - 105dbs .
    maybe 110dbs peak ?


    Actually anyone heard a Velodyne cht 12 digital.
    This is the only sub, I have heard in a store and it was impressive for 400 bucks.
    I thought SVS would be one better, which is why I assume I just needed a better model ?
     
  13. frogpond

    frogpond Stunt Coordinator

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    Here's my .02;
    Speaker and sub placement are a factor
    Room treatments are a very big factor
    Some say amp, receiver etc. match better with certain speakers/subs and
    vice versa...don't know the best match here
    And of course calibration but you already knew that

    Try seeing what SVS says they are really good at giving advice. By no means is our HT at a level of the ones I see here but I do get it up to -6 or -7and everything sounds clear and undistorted and I definately get a good shake out of the SVS PB-10. Something definately is not jiving with something.
    Our HT:
    Room size 16x14x7 and definately not dedicated and no room treatments although I do wish on both accounts...sigh...someday

    SVS-SBS-01 w/PB-10
    Denon 2106
    Oppo 971h
    Sanyo Z4
    Screen: Me experimenting with different paints, luckily my wife lets me.
     
  14. SethH

    SethH Cinematographer

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    It will be interesting to see what SVS says. There is just no way that sub should be bottoming out in your sealed room at -25db. If you have the capabilities to do so, you should run some tests with the free RoomEQWizard software that will give you a better idea of what your sub is doing across the various frequencies instead of just using standard test tones.
     
  15. steveGamble

    steveGamble Stunt Coordinator

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    SVS is offering to exchange the driver[​IMG]
    But I have my doubts.
    also on another note; sometimes the svs sub won't kick in until I keep turning it up?
    while the velo is running fine. (the SVS sits on top of the Velodyne like a tower ,7 feet from my seat, front left corner)
    This happens just once in a while +(cable is good)
    perhaps I got a deffect, somewhere ? It would be my luck, shipping back and forth to Canada and all.
    I really don't want to start changing out parts, trying to figure this out.
    I think based on your feedback, the SVS PB NSD 12 /2 should solve my Bass issues.
    Rather spend my $$$ on an upgrade than a bunch of shipping$.
    I should have insisted from day one, on a replacement, within my 45 days.
    But my new sealed room was not finished yet, and I wanted to wait to test it in there first.
     
  16. RichardH

    RichardH Supporting Actor

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    "
    front center, rear center, and rear surrounds running hot 2.5 to 4.5dbs
    Subs running 3db hot
    Neeedle bouncing past the 85 db mark (test tones) at 00

    and I play most dvd's at -30 or -28.5
    svs to half on dial back of sub
    velo at near max
    both at 120hz
    "

    You need to explain some of this. If you're running all your speakers "hot" 2.5-4.5 dB, and you're running your sub 3 dB "hot", then you're not really running anything hot. Does that make sense? Usually when people talk about running their sub "hot" they mean that they calibrate all speakers to reference level, and then turn the sub up a couple dB. If you're running everything hot, then you're just turning up the volume.

    Also, what do you mean by this: "both at 120hz" for your subs?? You should be bypassing the crossovers in the subs and using the crossover in your receiver. And that should be set at 80Hz to start and experiment from there.

    It sounds like you need to do a full proper calibration of your system and make sure you know what all the various terms are that you're referencing before you go and swap drivers and such. Also, I noticed this:

    "Bass out to sub....and I have the option bass out to fronts AND sub. (better)"

    Your subs may be fighting the bass from the mains because of cancellation!! You should really try a totally "standard" configuration and calibration first, then experiment w/ sub placement of just the SVS. Once you get the best results from that, maybe add the Velo back (but I'd rather add a BFD and smooth out your bass response as much as possible first). Then see what you think about the sound.

    If you need full instructions on a "standard" configuration and calibration, there are plenty of threads to search on that. Hope this helps you out!
     
  17. steveGamble

    steveGamble Stunt Coordinator

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    Yes.....The sub is not really hot compared to other speakers, just all volume is boosted by about 3db's , and calibration is bossted by 10db's
    so -29 on my receiver, is more like - 16 or -17 perhaps ??
    Anyway , it does not seem loud to the family and guests, but most people like it.
    I want MUCH more slam, impact, thunder than I feel now, while not increasing overall volume Too Too much.
    Moving the Sub around the room, Is not really an option, but calibration is.
    Although, I've spent hours playing with the system, and no matter what I can't get decent Bass output.
    I played and played, with the crossover, in the receiver, and enabled the Sub internal crossover. Then turned the dial to near 120HZ.
    This is where I was able to aciever MORE bass output.
    It may be wrong, but it sounds better ?
    Just want LOUDER ,

    I am going downstairs to try some recalibration from scratch, with ONLY SVS
    I'll do a thread search here on that first.
    Still...I am not able to make THAT much of a difference, with movement and calibration, It pounds or it doesn't ? Right ?
    Even with test tones, it bottoms out ! and thwacks.. over 90 dbs.
     
  18. frogpond

    frogpond Stunt Coordinator

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    Crossover at 120 ?! Egads! While I'm not familiar with the Yammy receiver I think you need to reset everything and start all over. Somebody may correct me on this but it should be around 80-90 (I think it even says this in the SVS litature). Somebody from here needs to run to your house with a meter and save your system!!
     
  19. steveGamble

    steveGamble Stunt Coordinator

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    I'll disable the internal crossover.
    set the Yammy to 90hz.......however this is where I feel very little bass.
    So I'll need to turn up the sub gain to feel it.
    which is at half now.
    oh...and disable the ol' velo,cht10...of course.....

    Geesh.....does everyone who skips calibration, suffer from lack of Bass, impact, when watching there movies ?
    Just a little tweek here and there........and Bamm ! ......yahoo, my Sub works great now ? from 90 db's with distortion... to 110db's clean output ?

    Ottawa Ontario, Canada......Anyone here, that wants to come check out my Theater room......(that knows what there doing ?)
     
  20. frogpond

    frogpond Stunt Coordinator

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    If I didn't have so many projects I would take a mini vaca and run up there from the states. Again I'm not familiar with the Yammy but the fronts and center should be set to small. If you have a delay feature you can set it to so it corraspondes to how many feet away each speaker is from the listening area. Ex. My fronts and center are set to 9ft, surrounds set to 4ft and sub set to 4ft. Fronts set to 0db, center set to -2db, surrounds set to -1db and sub set to -2db. Of course the room, treatments, and speaker placment is going to be a large part of how your settings come out. I hope someone from your area can and will come out and help you with a meter plus the fact another set of ears is good to have just to hear if anything is truly wrong.
     

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