Anyone happen to know the "Digital Audio" brand??? (1 Viewer)

[Dan Hine]

Talking about high dollar auto subs have you priced the TC built Ultra's

This seems to say that you think the driver in the Ultra is basically designed for auto use. That's silly...perhaps I'm just reading it wrong. And no, I had not priced them...mostly since I knew they were only available to SVS customers. Is it worth $579? There is no way for me to know that without T/S specs but from the data I've seen on them I'm sure it's a hell of a driver.

Are you looking for a fairly low cost driver with awesome specs? Dayton's Titanic MKII 12" driver kicks ass for about $150. So does the Adire Audio Tempest (a 15" if you were wondering) also for $150. Still too high priced? Try the Dayton DVC 12" when it goes on sale for $99. I challenge anyone to find a better driver for the same $$. What's the best thing about all these drivers? They actually tell you the parameters of the driver, that way you KNOW what you're getting. IMO, a company that sells RAW drivers and doesn't post specs is hiding something/using marketting double speak in order to make specific claims.

 

[Jai]

Ok Dan gonna try to bring closure to this I compared the price of the DA sub to the Ultra because you quoted the DA as "as overpriced auto speaker" @ $250. As for $500+ for one 12" that is definately too much for me. I did check out the Adire stuff...pretty impressive. I like Daytons speaks no frills and as a matter of fact I have a couple of their 15's in two old Lascala's. As far as getting the specs off the DA drivers thats a pretty bad marketing flaw. I know they can be had from DA. because they are identical to the Audiobahn line. Thanks for the advice on Daytons; however, I am not in the market....I simply chimed in on the DA site remember? Gonna have to take out a second mortgage for the PB2+ I received earlier this month. I feel I should add how great the guys @ SVS are since I mentioned them in my posts

 

[Brett DiMichele]

Jai,

And another FYI Between Detijl and TC Sounds who do you
think produces most of the best low frequency drivers in
the world..

Just because a sub doesn't have a chrome T-Yoke and some
fancy anodized aluminum cone ohh and a "Bolt Tyte" hah
motor structure does not mean it can't outperform the
flashy sub.. When you spend more money on the components
rather than the looks you wind up with more performance
and I still don't think my AV-12 (Built by TC-Sounds) is
a "bad" looking driver....

Case In Point..



Accurate TS Parameters are the life and death of any driver
and most "mainstream" companies fudge the numbers and that
is a well known fact.. They rarely provide DUMAX T/S Measurement
results.

Don't take this as a pissing match it's more of a friendly
debate. Ohh yeah and my AR9 cabinets are 3/4 CNC Routed
MDF and are heavily braced internaly just for the record.

Ohh yeah one more thing.... None of the DA Subs will out
SPL a Tumult.. SPL is a measure of displacement and the
Tumult has just about every drivers "azz kicked" in that
category plus with XBL^2 Motor Technology it can play within
a much larger linear range with much less distorsion than
any other typical driver design.

 

[Brian Bunge]

Jai,

The problem is, there's no way of knowing what a comparable Audiobahn sub is. I have not seen anything in the car audio market (except for the internet direct companies) that even comes close to the Tumult for under $1K.

Maybe they should spend the $100 to have some of their drivers DUMAX tested so we can get the real specs (especially Xmax).

 

[Jai]

Ok Brett, If you will read I said watt per watt the DA will win because it has a higher SPL or is more sensitive. Now that Tumult is some beast and I believe it posted a 88db. output with one watt. Now I know the DA will win on the short end and the Tumult will win with the really big amps. Doesnt SPL mean sound pressure level..hence decibels? I have not heard of the Detijl company until earlier I think thanks to Dan. I just hit Audiobahn's site and looked at their new linear compression speaks The 12" has a 4" voice coil 250oz. mag and is rated in the 88 db. range. This would probably be a good match up for the Tumult. The 18" and 34" have dual 5" voice coils..the 34" has a 650 oz magnet and the 18" has a 480 oz. mag. I think they can take 3-5k in watts each. I know this is overkill but it's cool they actually build this stuff. Oh by the way there is no boom boom in the back of my vehicle ....but I have a little bit in the house

Check it out audiobahninc.com/frameset.html

 

[Brett DiMichele]

Jai,

Ohh sorry I didn't closely enough read into what you was
getting at.. In the Subwoofer game Sensitivity isn't much
of a concern and why should it be when amp power is so
plentiful and relatively cheap?

I can understand splitting hairs over the Sensitivity of a
Midrange or Tweeter choice but those need the best power
you can afford and that power usually isn't cheap.. Most of
us aren't powering our subs with Pass Labs X230 Amps that
cost more than out cars we drive (well ok some of our
cars...)

The Tumult will certainly win on anything but a pure sensitivity
test. It's output is clean and linear within 90% of it's
excursion I think (Brian???)where most other drivers are up
into the 40% or more distorsion figure ranges.

I still wish all these suposed good companies would provide
real DUMAX results, though in all fairness most Car Audio
guys wouldn't understand the measurements anyway.. All most
care about is firing 5 12's in a Geo Metro and supplying
the drivers with 5Killowatts of power and saying "I hit 160
DB Woo Hoo!!!"

 

[Dan Hine]

The 12" has a 4" voice coil 250oz. mag and is rated in the 88 db. range. This would probably be a good match up for the Tumult. The 18" and 34" have dual 5" voice coils..the 34" has a 650 oz magnet and the 18" has a 480 oz. mag. I think they can take 3-5k in watts each.

are pretty worthless specs when comparing driver capabilities.

Thanks,

Dan

 

[Brian Bunge]

There's no driver available that I'm aware of that can take 3-5KW of continuous power. Maybe it'll take it for transient peaks (for a nanosecond or less) but regardless of the driver's quoted power handling, which is only a thermal rating, it'll be excursion limited more than likely well before you reach anywhere near that kind of input power.

 

[Jai]

Dan, what is the difference in the TC built AV's and the TC built SVS plus's? Both have the so called fancy or special 2" voice coils...Same cone, same surround, similar magnet. I bet there a very few differences. You know there are only so many tricks out there and if its cost effective whoever is buying will do it. Why do the AV's have a 2" coil and the Ultra's have a 3...money maybe? And talking about putting a driver in box of .7 or lower..? Why would you do that? You wont get the full potential out of any real woof doing that. I thought we were talking about big hitting products here. Qtc = .7 I guess this would give a good tight bass but would not be very efficient. I would consider this a home speak box but not a sub box. As far a parameters look under tech support on the site. Besides we are talking about a retail company that offers a full line of products. Not a company that specializes in speaks. I still want to know "your" better 12 that is under $250.

 

[Dan Hine]

I still want to know "your" better 12 that is under $250.

Perhaps I missed it. Exactly which 12" do you want me to find a better driver than?

 

[Jai]

Dan, you know Im sure there are some differences in the TC built subs for their various customers but you know when they have the same marketing jingle on the components you should be betting they are very similar and I mean subtle differences if any. Anything below 20 cycles is "cool"...heck anything below 25 is. This is great for HT and I would be chapped if I bought a sub that wouldn't produce some sub 20 cycle hits @ a decent db. As far a music goes Im not a big pipe organ fan so my sub doesnt hear much tunes. What is your best 12" sub for $250 and under and please tell why. Thanks

 

[Lee Carbray]

FYI Audiobahn T/S parameters can be found

here by clicking on the model year catalogue on the left.

If you are not up to speed on the model numbers the driver descriptions can be found here by clicking on the sub woofers link.

I have e-mailed Audiobahn before and if you see a spec that is listed as Zmax, that is the same as Xmax. Both are stated as one way linear travel.

 

[Dan Hine]

What is your best 12" sub for $250 and under and please tell why. Thanks

Well, it depends on the application really. But typically I recommend the AV12 (actually I would recommend the AV15 b/c it's STILL under $250, but you said 12"). An Fs of 21 hz, 23mm of one way xmax, a reasonable Qts allowing it to work well in either sealed or reflex cabinets, a total swept volume of 2291cm^3 all for $175...tough to beat.

 

[Brian Bunge]

Well, from the specs they're definitely car audio subs. No big surprise there. The don't tell you if efficiency is measured at 1W/1M or 2.83V/1M. Looking at the specs for the AWIS-15, it lists efficiency as 97dB. Doing a simple simulation and plugging in the T/S specs, I can get efficiency as either 1W/1M or 2.83V/1M. Well, when doing so, the 1W/1M efficiency comes out to 91dB and the 2.83V/1M efficiency comes out to 98.5dB. So there's only a 4dB difference in acutal efficiency when compared to the Tumult, which is 87dB 1W/1M. Not such a huge difference after all.

Looking at the AWISD-15, who's only real difference seems to be that it has lower sensitivity and higher Qts, which makes it a bit more suitable for sealed apps, I'm getting just under a 3dB difference in efficiency.

Now the big question...what do the AWIS and AWISD drivers actually sell for?

 

[Jai]

Hey Brian, check out the Linear Compression line...I think thats their big baller. What is the difference in one way Xmax and +/- other than the obvious? Is their an advantage to one way measurement? Hey I want to thank you guys for putting up w/me

 

[Brian Bunge]

Jai,

When they say +/- they've got to mean peak to peak, which would mean that the AWT15X driver only has a one way Xmax of 10.5mm. Even if it is 21mm one way, it won't be even remotely close to a Tumult, which has over 50% more Xmax. If I have a chance this evening I'll run a sim of the 15 and let you know moreso how it compares.

BTW, what does this driver typically cost?

 

[Lee Carbray]

What, does nobody have google?

From a quick scan, MSRP looks to be $900. Most online retailers sell it for around $500.

 

[Brian Bunge]

Lee,

I didn't care enough to look it up!

Concerning the AWT15X, it won't even remotely be a contender against something like the Tumult. The Xmax is listed as +/- 21mm. I don't know if that means 21mm peak to peak or 21mm each way. It's a bit unclear. Also, their efficiency ratings are definitely listed as 2.83V/1M as the true 1W/1M rating is 84.6dB.

Assuming the 21mm is a peak to peak measurement, with 1000W into the driver with in a .87ft^3 enclosure (Qtc=.707), you'd exceed Xmax with anything from 50Hz down. If the 21mm is truly a 1-way measurement, then you'd only exceed Xmax below 20Hz with 2500W.

So for $500 it might not be too bad, but at anywhere near full retail it'd be a rip off, IMHO of course.