Any reviews for Rocky & Bullwinkle S2 or Fractured Flickers yet? (1 Viewer)

[MarcoBiscotti]

Bernie, I just gave a possible theory in the post directly above you..

 

[BernieV]

I saw that after I posted, Marco, but I'm not sure I understand. You begin by saying that in this case you just don't feel as strongly about it, but then you imply that the addition of a bug is a pretty radical change. You suggest that it may be a significant means of protection, but that still doesn't explain why it has to made visible. Invisible, randomly inserted digital signatures would be harder to remove and just as conclusive as evidence, but would be much less obtrusive.

Those who disapprove of bugs should make their thoughts known to the publisher regardless of whether it prevents them from purchasing. If we can't stand together on matters involving artistic integrity, what chance do we have of discouraging further abuses?

 

[MarcoBiscotti]

What I stated was that according to copywrite laws, I believe, in order to protect a program in the public domain you'd need to significantly change the artistic structure and than have the transfer copyrighted as the author. Perhaps the altered music cues and visible on-screen bugs as well as "borrowing" credit sequences from season 1 were enough to secure the rights. Again, this could all be a bunch of nonsense.. I honestly don't know but it's just a thought.

 

[Jay Pennington]

Marco, my comment was not at all a disparagement of film preservation and good quality control for home video releases, nor the worthiness or quality of their application in this instance. I simply thought it ludicrous that even a big-name studio, much less a private family, would or even COULD spend millions on a relatively low-key (by Joe Sixpack "new release wall" standards) release.

"Over a million" is not "millions". A minor point when referring to lower numbers, but when you reach six or more digits it really makes a difference.

I do admit I am surprised by that amount regardless. The profit margin must be rather thin. Thanks for the quote!

(On another matter, I hate that the watermarks are there and while I understand their reasoning, I don't agree that they are useful or appropriate.)

 

[Tory]

What about Fractured Flickers? I ordered it but it hasn't arrived yet. I will say something of it if no one does after I get a chance to see it but if any one has it, tell, do tell.

 

[MarcoBiscotti]

Thanks Tory, this thread sort of got off-topic (mostly my fault) with all this talk of watermarking and bugs, etc.

I'm really anxious to get my hands on Fractured Flickers and can't wait to see what it's all about. I've never seen an episode before but I'm sure I won't be dissapointed! Do you know what kind of packaging VCI is using for this set, keepcase, etc?

 

[Al (alweho)]

Got my copy Monday, and here are some brief observations on what I sampled from the set so far:

It comes packaged in a case just like the Back to the Future set came in, a triple Amray. The insert contains the Toonpedia entry/essay on Jay Ward and a listing of the shows, detailed only as to the guest stars on each show. One of my discs was a floater - but the minor marks on the playing surface were easily removed with a soft cloth.

I was really surprised by the transfer quality, the shows look awfully good and are arranged in the following manner: Episodes 1-9 are on disc one, 10-18 on disc two and 19-26 on disc three, with each of the shows running about 26 minutes.

While the actual silents used are of differing quality due to the original source materials, the Hans Conried segments/interviews are nice and clean looking. The Desilu Syndication Sales logo is even left on at the end. The releasing company for home video is VCI by the way

They make a big deal about damaged audio on the first show's segment with Rose Marie, but IMHO it was a minimal problem. (The sound levels jump up and down a bit, most likely due to a wrinkled magnetic source.) You can still clearly understand what was said, and you don't have to struggle to do so. I haven't yet seen any more problems such as this one on what I've watched of the set so far.

The celebrity interviews are pretty much what has aged well from this show, my favorites (so far) are the Allan Sherman and Edward Everett Horton bits. The series itself starts out cleverly, but as the book on the Jay Ward shows noted (The Moose That Roared) they really had a tough time keeping things fresh all the way to the end of the show's run (mostly due to time/budget constraints). I'm looking forward to the segments with Annette Funicello, Rod Serling, Paul Lynde, Bob Denver and Pat Carroll among many others.

I couldn't determine (since I just got the set) if the edited segment about Elmo the lost Kennedy brother was restored back to one of the shows (the bit was based on an Ivor Novello silent titled A South Sea Bubble) - unfortunately the soundtrack was recorded in October of '63 and was considered in bad taste after JFK's assassination the next month.

For a Jay Ward fan like myself this set is a no brainer - it's another little bit of his work you can finally own. If you especially appreciate the voice talents used (Paul Frees, June Foray, Bill Scott) this is well worth seeking out.

While I've seen it listed at around $30 on-line, I picked my copy up at Digital Eyes for just a little more than $20 - a real value for 676 minutes of content.

Below is the blurb on the set from the VCI website:

Produced in 1963 for TV syndication via Desilu, Fractured Flickers was an irreverent tribute to silent pictures and the special creation of Jay Ward and Bill Scott, the comic genius' behind "Rocky & Bullwinkle" and many other TV cartoon characters. Using silent film clips featuring great old stars like Douglas Fairbanks, Stan Laurel, Houdini, Harry Langdon, Lon Chaney and Ben Turpin, and mixing in old newsreel footage with some zany plot lines, each episode became an entertaining conglomeration of comedy and mayhem. (If you're a fan of movies like "What's Up Tiger Lily?" or "Kung Pow: Enter the Fist" then you'll be in complete laugh-out-loud stitches by the end of this series!)

Each show also featured a special Guest Star interview, with the likes of Fabian, Rose Marie, Connie Stevens, Rod Serling, Bullwinkle J. Moose, Barbara Eden, Bob Denver, Ursula Andress, Bob Newhart and many more making an appearance. The series was also blessed with a great staff of writers, with lots of comedy experience – "The Rocky & Bullwinkle Show," "Get Smart" and "Mary Tyler Moore" – to name just a few.

Our special collection contains the entire series of 26 half-hour episodes on 3 dual layer DVDs.

RUNNING TIME: 26 chapters, 676 minutes | FORMAT: B&W | LANGUAGES: English | ASPECT RATIO: 1.33:1 | MPAA RATING: Unrated | DVD ENCODING: 3 DVD-9 | DVD AUDIO: Dolby Digital Mono | REGION: NTSC/All Region

 

[MarcoBiscotti]

Thanks so much for that info Al, I'm really looking forward to this one!

Two questions: Is there any animation featured or is it exclusively live action skits and segments? Also, like the packaging on BTTF, does it come in an outer slip or just the 3-disc amaray?

 

[Gabe D]

I haven't checked the new release yet, but they were not a subtitle on the Season 1 set.

 

[Gord Lacey]

I checked and the watermark is part of the actual image, not a subtitle.

It may not be enough to boycott the release of the set, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't complain about it. Like someone mentioned earlier, the bugs on TV started out by appearing for a few seconds and now we have them on all the time. I have a freakin' bug on a PREMIUM movie channel - a channel I pay extra for! If people don't complain about things they dislike then others could view it as being acceptable. Will we see "WB" logos popping up on The Flintstones and Looney Tunes sets?

I'm not about to lose sleep over it, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't bitch about it either.

Gord

 

[Al (alweho)]

1) The only animation (so far on what I have been able to watch of the set) is the opening title sequence. The Bullwinkle interview segment is done with the infamous hand puppet. Segment title cards are done in the signature '60s Jay Ward graphic style, but not animated.

2) No outer slip cover. Considering the low cost of the set I didn't even expect the four page insert, but it was nice to get it.

 

[Patrick McCart]

They actually did this for the Looney Tunes for a while. Turner remastered most of the Warner cartoons in their ownership in 1995 (of course, from existing dye-transfer and Eastmancolor elements they had). When they did this, they deleted the original end title card from the cartoons and replaced them with a generic one (however, the exceptions are the B&W Merrie Melodies, and the non-Blue Ribbon-ized Looney Tunes from 1942-1944).

Warner apparently doesn't suffer from video pirating that much since they rarely add copyguarding to their catalog DVD's.

 

[Gord Lacey]

I wonder if they think people are pirating their stuff, or do they have evidence of it. I'm told of a lot of pirated material because of the website, and I've never seen or heard of any pirated Bullwinkle stuff. They could be using the line to justify the watermark, since we've mentioned a few other ways they could "protect" their material without being so obvious.

Gord

 

[Shannon B]

These logos (let's call them what they are) are totally unacceptable to me. I've got to much of these nonsense in my life as it is. I'm really sad to hear that they did this. And they think it will stop piracy? Who are they kidding?!?! That's absurd. They either don't know what they are talking about or are just blaming this ugliness on piracy. Either way it doesn't add up.

 

[Tory]

I just got Fractured Flickers and loved it but nothing more can really be said about it other than what has already been mentioned. I noticed a Cartoon Classics Promo on the first disc,showing what I guess to be trailers for future DVDs? I know VCI has some of these on video but not DVD, except a few, Popeye and Somewhere In Dreamland. The first one is for the already on DVD Popeye, then Gabby, Clutch Cargo, Betty Boop(on VHS from them), Somewhere In Dreamland (DVD already), Superman, The Funny Company. I never heard of Clutch Cargo and The Funny Company. Are these any good? Are these coming to DVD?

 

[Tony J Case]

Well, if you dont mind altering movies and TV shows, then why dont you buy pan and scan discs? I mean giving up a little extra picture on the ends is a small price to pay to see a movie right?

 

[Paul Miller]

A small bug on the screen of every episode of Bullwinkle is not the same as half the picture being cut off through out a whole movie.

Regardless of the bug, these sets are a tremendous bargin, you are getting eight DVD sides worth of entertainment for about twenty dollars which is an even better deal than the Abbott & Costello movie collections.

Paul

 

[Tony J Case]

Yeah it is - the exact same thing. Altering is altering, right? Did Jay Ward intend for the bug to appear in the corner of his work? If he did, then it would have been there in 1965.

Ok - granted, the letter box was a bad example. So, why dont you buy movies that are open matte, like Willy Wonka? You get all the picture - hell, you get some bonus picture to boot! It's not what the director intended, but hey - it's no big deal right?

It just seems that everyone is blowing this off, because it's "only a cartoon". But once we open that door, we'll never be able to shut it again. Remember way back when USA Network put the first TV bug on their programming? "It was just one network", people said. Look where we are now - spinning, noisy, taking up half the screen promos on every network.

Is *THAT* where you want to be in 5 years with DVD's?

 

[Al (alweho)]

Should the "bug" discussion get its own thread?

 

[James Reader]

It's not to stop pirates copying the discs. As you say, it wouldn't bother a small time pirate.

It's so that if a company releases the same transfers as part of a PD collection, the Ward family have a legitimate way of proving the transfer was taken off the restoration they paid so much money for.

The Ward family are protecting their investment, and making sure other people don't unfairly profit from it. Images or patterns in the overscan area don't work, as the image would just be cropped. Digital Watermarks probably wouldn't work either if the "PD" release was made by filming a viewing of the restored transfer.

Yes, the bug can still be cropped off for the first few seconds of the programme by pirates and/or companies; but it would look damn suspicious to the courts should the lower right corner be covered with something else, or cropped either for the first few seconds of an episode or throughout the episode...