Another post about meeting women... (1 Viewer)

[Derek Miner]

Yes, it was!

 

[Ryan Wright]

I didi date a married woman once, I had more qualms about that than she did. Eventually I just went along... next time I will waste much less time thinking about whether this is "right" or worng: That is for her to worry about.

No, it's not. Both you and her would be at fault for breaking up her marriage. Without you, she can't cheat on her husband. Sure, she could find another man willing to help her cheat, but then it's him who will share the blame for her failed marriage. Then there are the moral and legal issues: You're committing adultery. If you're at all religious, you're violating the foundations of your religion. Even if you aren't, you're still violating the law, and her husband can bring a lawsuit against you for it. What about her children? Perhaps if, instead of screwing around with you, she had put that time and effort into her husband they would have found a renewed love together. Perhaps if you instead sat her down and had a nice talk about the commitment of marriage, she would take it to heart and keep her family intact. Or perhaps she would have simply moved on to someone else. Regardless, shouldn't you at least toss those dice? I would.
Lastly, most men don't take too kindly to other men fooling around with their wives. Screw with the wrong woman, and you could find yourself dead in an alley somewhere. There are plenty of unstable husbands around who would do it.

 

[Chris Derby]

Or maybe, that type of behavior is just allowed (mutually) in their particular marriage and you aren't doing anything "wrong" at all...

 

[Patrick Sun]

If you're in a "swinging" type of marriage, then be upfront about it with whoever you are flirting with, else there might be more surprises than "The Crying Game" for all parties involved.

 

[Chris Derby]

Damn, now I'm gonna have to go rent "The Crying Game".

 

[BryanZ]

Marraige is a sacred institution in which both parties need to give 110% to each other, offering their affections, time, and effort to no one and nothing else. If you are devoting your energy to work and neglecting your spouse then the marraige has a good start on failure. If the other spouse doesn't explicitely say there is a problem then the blame could go both ways but that is still no excuse for seeking fulfilment both sexual and emotional elsewhere. If there is a problem tell your partner point blank what it is. Leave no room for misinterpretation. Let it be crystal clear and without a shadow of a doubt. Always discuss your problems and talk about them calmly.

The main reason divorces occur is one spouse's attention is elsewhere. They feel neglected in some way, shape, or form so they begin to look to someone else to fulfill that need.

As a general rule, I do not get involved when a lady is separated or currently seeing someone else, even if they both have agreed to see other people while still dating each other. Only if the lady is absolutely single or officially divorced will I date her.

There are four things vital to a serious relationship with a spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend. Number one is commitment, first to each other and second to the relationship. Second is honesty. Third is communication. Last is love, for there will be times you love your partner more than other times. "I love you" has been spoken between two people many times, all too often in lust rather than the love that says you will give all of yourself to the other.

 

[Ryan Wright]

Or maybe, that type of behavior is just allowed (mutually) in their particular marriage and you aren't doing anything "wrong" at all...

...this is the exception, not the rule. I'd say the swinging population is quite small, so the chances that a married woman's husband would not care if she were fooling around is slim to none.
IF I were single, and IF I were of the mind that the swinging lifestyle was at all moral, and IF I believed in the concept of sexual gratification without care or responsibility, and IF I came across a married woman who told me her husband didn't care because they were swingers, I'd at LEAST go talk to her husband in person before hopping into bed with her! That's a lot of IFs, and 9 out of 10 times I bet she'd be full of shit about him not caring.

 

[Holadem]

Then there are the moral and legal issues: You're committing adultery. If you're at all religious, you're violating the foundations of your religion. Even if you aren't, you're still violating the law, and her husband can bring a lawsuit against you for it. What about her children? Perhaps if, instead of screwing around with you, she had put that time and effort into her husband they would have found a renewed love together. Perhaps if you instead sat her down and had a nice talk about the commitment of marriage, she would take it to heart and keep her family intact. Or perhaps she would have simply moved on to someone else. Regardless, shouldn't you at least toss those dice? I would.

I said in my post that I had qualms about the situation, which means I did exactly what you are talking about. Again, I came to the realisation that she KNEW what she was doing.

We never had sex (well, as defined by the previous administration), because (1) she would never come to my place for fear of that (2) I wouldn't want to take that responsability on myself because I knew 100% she would regret it.

I was not aware that I was violating the law. If so, it is a stupid law. People in the mariage are responsible for what they do to endager their union, not the people they do it with. I wouldn't fault anyone for talking to my wife. If I didn't find her attractive, I wouldn't be with her. I would fault her for responding to advances. The gentlemen talking to her has nothing to lose. She does. SHE should know better, not him. Of course I agree that most people don't think this way, especially women. Also, I am not saying I wouldn't hate the guy. I would, but I would never blame him. If she followed him, that means there was something up with us in the first place. These things happen for a reason.

Something I realised back then that I don't expect you to understand: there was something real between us. The situation made it look dirty, but when you are part of it, you don't feel like that at all. When you are involved romantically with a married person, you don't think of yourself as an asshole.

Needless to say, that relationship definitly destroyed the little faith I had in marriage.

--

Holadem

 

[Chris Derby]

because I knew 100% she would regret it.

Don't let people take this out of context.

 

[Patrick Sun]

When you are involved romantically with a married person, you don't think of yourself as an asshole.

I'm sure the other spouse does.

 

[Brad_W]

I'm sure the other spouse does.

LOL!!

Again, I reiterate the whole "it was once legal to shoot your spouse if they are cheating on you" law.

 

[Stacie]

Hey, all,

I have a little personal anecdote to relate about marital infidelity and associated nastiness; it's a situation that made me see this as much more of a gray issue that must be decided on a case-by-case basis. I used to agree completely with those who say that married means off-limits, period, end-of-discussion.

But then my sister fell in love with a married man -- a man who had been married for 25 years, and miserable for 24 of them (but always completely faithful to his wife). He had raised two children with his first wife (they were grown and on their own by the time he met my sister). My sister felt terrible about this situation at first, but it quickly became clear that he was in love with her, too. As soon as they figured that out between them, he told his wife, moved out of their house, and asked for a divorce.

Well, to make a very long story not quite so long, the divorce proceedings were lengthy, nasty, and made everyone involved miserable. But once it was over and everyone was able to move on, things changed for the better. My sister and this man are now very happily married, and his ex-wife has remarried and is much happier than she ever was in her first marriage. Everyone concerned is better off than they would have been if the infidelity had never occurred. My sister and her husband aren't proud of how their relationship began, but they are so happy together that they can't possibly regret how things worked out.

So I would say it's a tough call. Their story isn't typical, but it does happen -- and that's why I think there can't really be a one-size-fits-all rule about these situations.

Great discussion, by the way.

 

[Mike Broadman]

Disclaimer: I'm only 23 and single, so I'm only speaking from logic and observation, not experience.
Here's the tricky situation of marriage: When the idea began, people died much younger. Marriages lasted only 20 years or thereabouts. Today, with a lifespan of 70-80 years for many people, a successful marriage would have to last 40 or 50 years. Wow!
People just get sick of each other. You can't say, at twenty-something years old, "I'm going to love this person forever." Who knows what life will bring, or how people can change? What may seem like a harmless tendency to party when one is young can become a horrible alcohol addiction. Or a spouse can develop bad gambling habbits that cripple your future. Or one of you may develop religious ideals that conflict with your own. And then, of course, there is the small matter of children. Face it, the chances of a successful marriage are small, indeed.
My personal issue is that the marriage vows are, well, vows. I take my word and my honor extremely seriously. If I vow to be faithful to one person for the rest of my life, I'll do it, plain and simple, even if it makes me miserable. I just can't see me myself divorcing someone, it's against my nature. Fortunately, it's against my nature to ever marry someone, so that solves that problem.

 

[Holadem]

I just can't see me myself divorcing someone, it's against my nature. Fortunately, it's against my nature to ever marry someone, so that solves that problem.

Hey, we should meet and become best pals! We are both 23, single, and think exactly the same way!
--
Holadem

 

[WoodyH]

First off - wow! Great discussion - and I've gotta say, I'm really impressed at the amount of actual _discussion_ in this thread, when dealing with what could be a very touchy subject.
So much here that I could reply to...
Mike -

Disclaimer: I'm only 23 and single, so I'm only speaking from logic and observation, not experience.

I'm 'only' 28, and have been single for the past three years - however, as of a week ago, am currently quite happily seeing someone. In any case, there's a fair amount of logic and observation in my statements, as well of a lot of experience (maybe more than I should have at 28).
Incidentally, returning to the main theme of the thread, I'm quite amused by how I met the girl I'm dating now. Having just moved to Seattle from Anchorage, Alaska, and not knowing very many people down here, my social life has been fairly close to nonexistant. So one Sunday evening I'm compensating for that by hanging out in the Seattle rooms of Yahoo! Chat. I've got a collection of names I use that started as in jokes between some friends and I, and that evening I was using terminallyunphuckable. I'd not been saying much, but suddenly I got an IM from someone saying that they got a kick out of my name.
We get to talking, and things start to get bizarre. I mention that I'm from Anchorage, and it turns out that this girl is also from Anchorage, and is going to school down here. After a while of talking about life back in the frozen north, we decide to actually meet in person - both of us just looking for a friendly face from our old stomping grounds, neither of us looking for anything beyond that. During conversation at a local bar, I mention the apartment I used to live in, when she suddenly gets a wierd look on her face. She asks if I ever lived with a specific person - and it's an ex-roommate of mine that I kicked out. It turns out that this girl is best friends with the girl that was dating my ex-roommie at the time I kicked him out, and she's even been over to my old apartment in Anchorage a few times, just without ever meeting me. Beyond that, she used to hang out at Gig's, an all-ages dance club that I was dj'ing at, and we have many of the same circles of friends - we just apparently stayed on opposite sides of those circles until we met by chance in Seattle.
So, after at least a few years of just barely missing meeting each other, we each move to Seattle, she IM's someone she doesn't know (which she doesn't normally do), I answer an IM from someone I don't know (something I don't normally do), we meet in person that evening (something neither of us normally do)...and a week after that, we're dating. Makes me wonder what fate has in store for the future. And just to make it even more sickeningly sweet, we'll both be going back up to Anchorage to see family over Christmas, so we'll be able to see each other and meet our respective families over the Christmas holiday...
From my experience, the best things are most likely to come along when you're not looking for them at all.

 

[Elizabeth S]

Something I realised back then that I don't expect you to understand: there was something real between us. The situation made it look dirty, but when you are part of it, you don't feel like that at all. When you are involved romantically with a married person, you don't think of yourself as an asshole.

Thank you so much, Holadem, for saying this. I've felt the same way. NOT A SOUL ON EARTH will ever convince me that my love was wrong. It was the purest, most unselfish love I will ever experience. If you haven't been in this situation, you cannot understand, just as I'm sure I can't understand what it would feel like to be the cheated-on spouse.

 

[Ryan Wright]

Wow, Woody... it really is a small world.

Cool story, thanks for sharing...

 

[WoodyH]

If you haven't been in this situation, you cannot understand, just as I'm sure I can't understand what it would feel like to be the cheated-on spouse.

You'll get no argument from me on that. I spent some time experimenting and ended up in some very interesting situations - I've been the guy finding out that his girlfriend has been cheating on him, I've been the guy hoping his girlfriend doesn't find out what he's doing, I've tried 'open relationships', and I've been the 3rd party in another relationship. Each situation has its own dynamics, and there's no definite stand on whats 'right' or 'wrong' in my eyes. The high moral ground is a fine place to speak from when you're standing on it - but it's entirely possible to suddenly find yourself trying to work through the grey areas that you didn't know existed before a situation presented itself, and then it's just up to you to find out what you're comfortable with, realizing that you will have to live with whatever repurcussions there may be. I might not end up in the situations I did in the past were I presented with them again now, but in no way do I regret what's happened - if nothing else, it helped me figure out the best way for me to approach things.
For me, I'm now seeing someone, and am not going to jeapordize that in any way - and neither will I risk jeapordizing another person's relationship, no matter how well I think I may be able to rationalize it to myself. But I'm certainly in no position to pass judgement on any situation that anyone else ends up in, as I'm not likely to really know all the dynamics of what's going on.
Besides - what business of mine is it, anyway?

 

[MikeH1]

Great story Woody. The bottom line is what you said in your post as a final thought: It happens when you least expect it. Everytime I "give up" chasing women I actually start dating someone. However, It usually doesn't last longer than a month. Myself, I have too much fun being single. I was in a relationship for quite a few years when I was in my late teens/mid twenties. Now its MY turn.

One day I know we'll meet. I also know it will be at the most incovenient of times. Anything worth having doesn't come without some sort of fight. Thats my motto