Andy Griffith Season 3 --- August 16, 2005

Discussion in 'TV on DVD and Blu-ray' started by David Von Pein, May 31, 2005.

  1. Roy Wall

    Roy Wall Supporting Actor

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    Nice pic of Barney and the slingshot.

    "Man In A Hurry"....a fine fine episode....a good lesson about life.
     
  2. Rodney

    Rodney Supporting Actor
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    What a great show. In a little over a month we will have one of the best season's available to us. DVDs are wonderful things, aren't they?

    David, regarding your rating, I would have to change your order to:

    1.) "Peggy McMillan"
    2.) "Ellie Walker"
    3.) "Helen Crump"
    4.) "Mary Simpson"

    I thought Peggy was great in the four short eps she was in. Ellie didn't have the spark there, and Mary (either one) wasn't in enough to make an impact. Helen was good, but I always wished that Peggy would have stayed in Mayberry.

    Someone asked if others would buy the colored episodes. Count me out. When Barney left, the show went downhill. Andy became downright grumpy the last few years, and the stories about Aunt Bee flying, or owning a restaurant, well, sorry to say this, but they stank! I won't even mention the Howard Sprague storylines. And I want to remember Opie the Birdman, not Opie the Rock-and-Roll star.

    That is just my opinion, I could be wrong.
     
  3. Steve...O

    Steve...O Producer

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    The notation on the Paramount website that says some of the episodes "may" be edited is quite troubling. It's unfortunate that Paramount no longer allows their reps to participate in HTF; I'd like to get to the bottom of this. Is it 1 episode for which no usable elements exist or did they decide to use the syndication masters for all episodes because it was cheaper? Have they checked 16mm copies owned by private collectors to locate missing footage?

    Steve
     
  4. Bob Hug

    Bob Hug Screenwriter

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    From Paramount's web site: "Some episodes may be edited from their original Network versions."

    Based on the running times that Paramount posted for season 2 and season 3, I don't believe that there will be too much in the way of edits. Paramount indicates that season 2 has a running time of 782 minutes; with 31 episodes in season 2 that works out to an average running time of about 25:14. Season 3 had 32 episodes and Paramount indicates a running time of 808 minutes, or 25:15 per episode. Although I can't be certain, I'd guess that the edits are going to be minimal. It is strange that there were no mentions of edits on the season 1 and 2 releases, however.
     
  5. Rodney

    Rodney Supporting Actor
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    Oh, this is unsettling. I hope we can hear an official reason why we are getting edited episodes.
    This would have to happen to Season 3!
     
  6. ChadP2k

    ChadP2k Stunt Coordinator

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    In the case of Andy Griffith the "possibly edited" warning on the Season 3 set is most likely because of lack of available master elements, or damage to original negatives.

    When syndication switched from 16mm film to videotape Viacom went back to the original TAGS copies and remastered each episode, editing 3.5 minutes out of each episode for syndication purposes. These shows were what you see on your local stations, and what used to air on TBS.

    A few years ago a program director at WFMY-TV in Greensboro told me that after that point Viacom changed hands several times and in the course of the film reels moving from place to place some of the original elements were damaged or "went missing".

    Around the year 2000 when TV Land gained the rights to air TAGS Paramount struck new 35mm prints of what they deemed their "master negative" and gave these tapes to TV Land so they could edit their broadcast copies. Typically the entity that controls the show (Paramount, Fox, etc) send stations an already "cut" version of each episode. TV Land however recieves "master" copies and does their own editing.

    During this time they re-discovered many of the old epilogues, which TV Land now shows. But a good rule of thumb is if a show is missing its' epilogue on TV Land, chances are it will be missing it on DVD as well because it doesn't exist anymore in the original negatives. That may be the reason for the warning on Season 3.

    I've also been told that several of the episodes in the series could only be located with opening credits that read "Andy of Mayberry", which shows the original negative was cut for the reruns while the show was still going strong.
     
  7. MatthewA

    MatthewA Lead Actor

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    Why, then, can't the distributors adopt a similar policy for other stations?
     
  8. ChadP2k

    ChadP2k Stunt Coordinator

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    Well theoretically they COULD, but the distributors like to control how their shows are presented and providing an already "edited" version makes it possible to do that.

    Plus you're talking major bucks for a station to do their own editing.

    In the case of Andy Griffith a station wanting to do their own edits would have to pay Viacom for the set of videotapes (and I'm sure uncut episodes would carry a premium), giving them 249 tapes.

    You'd have to pay someone to watch all 249 episodes and develop a list of cuts for each of the episodes, then go back and actually DO the editing.

    That would mean you would have to have 249 broadcast quality beta tapes to edit the new versions to as well... you're talking a HUGE amount of time and money that most stations don't have to spend on something like this.
     
  9. MatthewA

    MatthewA Lead Actor

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    Or they could save money and not cut it at all.
     
  10. Scott Kimball

    Scott Kimball Screenwriter

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    Explain how that would work. In an advertising driven medium (broadcast television), the more minutes available for ads, the more you make.
    Let's be realistic.

    Anyway... that's kind of off-topic.

    I suspect that TAGS S3 may have some minor cuts due to damaged or missing elements. I'm not speaking from experience, as it will be several weeks before I receive a screener copy.

    Most of Paramount's output is released as complete as is feasible.

    -Scott
     
  11. MatthewA

    MatthewA Lead Actor

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    However, if they did one of two things:

    A) Aired it in a 35-minute time slot, getting the glut of ads the station wants
    B) Aired it in a 30-minute time slot, but vigorously promote the fact that it is complete, thus hoping to increase the ratings.

    It might work.
     
  12. Steve...O

    Steve...O Producer

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    Increased ratings don't mean anything without increased ad revenue. Increased Ad revenue doesn't come without more commercials. A station isn't going to be able to charge premium rates for a rerun of a 45 year old show even if it is uncut. As Scott said, let's be realistic.

    I am going to be optimistic that any editing on S3 will be minor and will be due to factors outside of Paramount's control. The fact they've apparently pieced in 16mm footage to replace missing footage on other sets is a sign that they try to get it right.

    Steve
     
  13. David Von Pein

    David Von Pein Producer

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    I'm wondering if any Season-Three "edits" might just be on the closing credits only, which were virtually ALL "dubbed"/edited on TAGS-S.1 (but not for S.2 for some reason).

    I've yet to see a dubbed/altered "whistling" closing credits sequence from Season 2. They all appear to be the "originals" during S.2.

    But I think all of the (many) "PD" DVDs of TAGS that are on the market (which contain virtually nothing but S.3 episodes) have the dubbed open & closing credits.
     
  14. ChadP2k

    ChadP2k Stunt Coordinator

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    David it could be.....

    The episodes were filmed and originally aired with one version of the opening & closing credits (and music), which of course integrated the sponsors product images into the fishing scene in the closing credits.

    When the show went into re-runs during the time new episodes were still being made they changed the title of the daytime reruns to "Andy of Mayberry", and used a slightly different tone of music for the credits since of course the sponsor images weren't needed anymore. (This is similar to I Love Lucy, when the familar Heart opening and closing credits came into play).

    I also recall reading somewhere either in the old Andy Griffith Show Re-Run Watchers Club Newsletter or in one of the many TAGS books that when the show went to color after Don Knotts departure the theme music was re-recorded yet again, but that might be inaccurate.

    My guess is that the first season episodes only survived with the "Andy of Mayberry" theme music... and that is why it was used for those episodes.

    The "dubbed" music on Season 3 Public domain releases has nothing to do with Paramount. The theme song for TAGS (and the opening/closing music) has never fallen into the public domain because it is copyrighted separately.

    So while the episodes on the PD DVDs ARE in the public domain and could be released including the original whistling music would have been violating copyright laws, so each of the PD producers dreamed up some new tone to go with their discs. I've sampled many of the different discs produced by various companies (I actually RAN a website dedicated to reviewing them all at one point several years ago) and it varies considerably in what tone the made up versions take.
     
  15. Gary OS

    Gary OS Producer

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    One gentleman on another website (whom has always given correct info, but doesn't work for Paramount as far as I know) states emphatically that the episodes will be uncut and that this notice only concerns the ending credits.

    Gary "hope he's right" O.
     
  16. ChadP2k

    ChadP2k Stunt Coordinator

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    That's good news... as Dave and others have suggested I bet they're having to go with the "Andy of Mayberry" theme music again like Season 1
     
  17. Dave Farley

    Dave Farley Second Unit

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    I hope he's right as well. I could live with that.
     
  18. David Von Pein

    David Von Pein Producer

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    Me too. Because I, too, could live with that minor "editing" (I very rarely watch the closing credits on a TV DVD anyway).

    But it makes me scratch my balding head re. two things --

    1.) Why doesn't Paramount have the "May Be Edited" disclaimer on its Season-One webpage? .......

    http://homevideo.paramount.com/Catal...elease_id=4155


    2.) Why would the ending sequences for Seasons 1 and 3 be the "dubbed"/edited versions -- but all of the eps. in S.2 contain the original endings. (I think they do at any rate -- or am I nuts in this regard? -- I did just now say I hardly ever watch the closing credits, didn't I? But I intentionally checked out the S.2 endings (one time each at least) to see if they seemed dubbed over or not; and to my ears they sound original.)

    I guess a possible answer concerning my #1 item above could be -- The "Required 'Edits' Disclaimer" (if, in fact, it is a "requirement" for DVDs all of a sudden) was not in effect when S.1 surfaced, and was not made retroactive
    for prior DVD products.

    I'm going to go ask Gomer about this -- he's studying to be a doctor, ya know? [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  19. Gary OS

    Gary OS Producer

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    My understanding of this guy's explanation is that unlike Season 2, when we get to see Andy & Opie walking away from the fishing hole, we will be treated with something similar to Season 1. Originally, when Season 3 aired, you would see the two walking away and a sponsor spot in the corner. Guess they couldn't retrieve these. But I can live with that.

    Gary "that would make sense too seeing as how the total running time seems to indicate no cuts" O.
     
  20. David Von Pein

    David Von Pein Producer

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    Well, now you're referring to the opening credits; not the closings.

    You had hinted (above), Gary, that the S.3 "edits" would only affect the "ending credits".

    Oh, well...no matter. Opening or closing "edits" don't really bother me very much. I rarely watch either -- that's what they made the "Chapter/Skip" remote button for; and that's why it's very important, IMO, to include a Chapter Break right after the opening credits -- which, very nicely, Paramount has done with S.1 and S.2 of "T.A.G.S.". [​IMG]


    Post-Script re. "opening" title sequences on TAGS ----

    I'm positive there's at least one TAGS season that features a "cutaway" shot during the opening credits where the camera cuts away from Andy and the rock-throwing Opie and the last seconds of the opening sequence show the rock (via close-up) hitting the water on the lake.

    I was looking for this "close-up rock cutaway" in S.1 and S.2, but I guess that shot wasn't used in those seasons.

    Anybody know in which season that cutaway shot began?
     

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