Android Honeycomb Tablet OS is official. This does not suck! (1 Viewer)

[Hanson]

Dave, I believe by cached maps Man is referring to the ability to use Google Maps offline. So if you have a wifi only tablet, you can cache the route at home and then use it on the road without needing to pull in the data. The old Maps required multiple versions of the same tile for each level of detail. The new version scales and let's you cache for offline use.


There seem to be two general themes that run through many of these Android device reviews:


1) Everything goes back to the iPhone or iPad. And because many/most of the reviewers use iOS devices, they have a difficult time understanding what is better on Android than iOS. Someone like Moss won't be satisfied unless an Android device does everything the same way iOS does it.


2) A small and minor issue for the reviewer is scaled up as a major problem for the great unwashed. I jumped into Android after WinMo, and I went from 0 to 60 on Android in nothing flat. But if I take my wife's iPod Touch 4 to resolve some problem she's having, it takes me a while to get a hang of it. If I'm reviewing an iOS device, there are dozens of different issues that frustrate me to no end because my point of reference is Android. So I am much more interested in reading the reviews from Android Central or whatnot because Moss and Pogue and Topolsky basically tell you why this device or the other isn't as good as the Apple version. I'm kind over that comparison.

I do get the sense from the reviews that Honeycomb is still a beta product, which, unfortunately, typical Google. Android was ready for primetime until 2.0. So it will probably take a year before Honeycomb really starts to dazzle. So I'll hang on to my 7" form factor for now.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

You might also be able to conserve your wireless data plan usage (or simply not worry much about traveling thru poor coverage areas) if you don't need to be online fulltime to use Google Maps/Nav -- something I'd think Dave can appreciate.


But yeah, it does seem like many of these reviews are a bit too iOS-centric -- and I'm not saying this as somebody who's already drank some Android Kool-Aid while hating on iOS or the like since I've actually owned and enjoyed a 2G iPod Touch (and more traditional iPods) for a good while w/out ever owning an Android device. I can appreciate the KISS principle and the simple elegance of iOS so far, but it is also quite clearly not the end-all-be-all of mobile OS/environment. And personally, I still think 99% of the whole App Store phenomenon is just pure gimmick (though it's clearly been a great marketing ploy for Apple), and I'm glad to see at least that one reviewer did not harp on about that in this Xoom review...


_Man_

 

[Sam Posten]

Really, Navigation is a killer app on a 10" tablet? Bokay.... A nice to have I'll grant you, but I don't know ANYONE who is screaming for it, and the reviews seem to reflect that..

 

[DaveF]

Even cached data isn't a "killer app"it, since it's been available with the MotionX GPS apps for the iPhone for a year or two. (Moreover, I don't think most people know about, much less have interest in, running a GPS route through a pre-drive simulation to cache the data. It's a workable kludge, but not an elegant solution for the masses. And by masses, I include myself.)


As Sam referenced in Ihnatko's quote: what's the Xoom's killer app? Cached, vector-based map data? No.


It's not price. That's the Windows PC killer feature: $400 laptop versus $999 MacBook.


It might have a killer feature with 4G when that's enabled. Not for the mass-market yet, but there are those who will find that the differentiater over the iPad.


Perhaps Honeycomb's approach to Tablets compared to iOS will be the killer feature? Android seems to be skewing more towards conventional desktop approaches than iOS. (Just based on the reviews I've seen.) Having widgets and unfettered multitasking and the variety of screen setups might be a key distinction for the Xoom over the iPad.


Maybe as a mobile movie-watcher? A true 10" widescreen movie-watching tablet versus the iPad's ~7" experience could be a big deal. But Ihntako claims the screen is visibly inferior looking than the iPad's. And reviews note the utter lack of video content for the Xoom. So, there's a possible advantage, but Moto and Google can't press it yet.


If microSD cards come out at 64+ GB, that could be something: a 96 GB Xoom compared to a 64 GB ipad? (But what does the iPad 2 bring?)


If Apple goofed with its 30% subscription fee, and it loses Kindle, Netflix, and Hulu to Android, that could be game over. (But I don't think that will happen.)


I thought RDP was the killer app, for my dad. Turns out, may not be so.


And for a few, "not Apple" is killer-app enough.



Here's my recipe for Xoom success:

* 32GB wifi price reduction to $499 ($100 below the iPad)

* Get a movie service available and press "big" 10" widescreen experience. (Get Netflix on your tablet yesterday.)

* Man's notion of video conferencing siimultaneous with applications on the big screen. The productivity concepts are vast


And to just crush everyone and dominate in one fell stroke:

* Buy Rovio and make Angry Birds a Motorola / Xoom exclusive Do that and you've just bought the entire tablet market. Who's going to buy an iPad if there's no more Angry Birds?

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

The reviews haven't touched on it at all. In fact, I haven't seen any of apparently iOS-centric, Android smartphone reviews spend all that much time on that either. And that's really the rub there.


And who said this latest version of Google Maps actually requires a tedious pre-drive simulation anyway? Near as I can tell, we just don't know if that's still the case, but my impression is actually "no". The older versions of Google Maps/Nav can already do that in some fashion (according to Hanson), so I'm guessing this latest version won't require a similarly tedious approach to force caching -- I'd think it should at least be able to do a reasonably quick, background download/caching of all the needed data after you route your trip, etc., if it's done right, and if the vectorized data size is indeed substantially smaller, then that can only help in that regard.


But again, I'm not saying it would *actually* be a killer app for a 10" tablet, but these various reviews don't even seem to give the app a chance to speak for itself.


Sometimes, if you assume something won't matter, it just won't because you're not giving it a chance to matter. You know? Self-fulfilling prophecies and all that?


I think w/ the newness of tablets and all, reviewers should approach them w/ fresher perspective and try things differently to see if there's not really more to it than they're used to thinking -- and should also break away from being so iOS-centric in their reviews, if at all feasible. If certain reviewers cannot do that, then we need different reviewers who can (and will)...


_Man_

 

[Sam Posten]

I found Hanson's super tablet, and it's PISSED.


http://www.tuaw.com/2011/02/25/found-footage-the-silly-season-two-videos-of-the-ipad-2/

 

[DaveF]

Originally Posted by ManW_TheUncool

And who said this latest version of Google Maps actually requires a tedious pre-drive simulation anyway? Near as I can tell, we just don't know if that's still the case, but my impression is actually "no". The older versions of Google Maps/Nav can already do that in some fashion (according to Hanson), so I'm guessing this latest version won't require a similarly tedious approach to force caching -- I'd think it should at least be able to do a reasonably quick, background download/caching of all the needed data after you route your trip, etc., if it's done right, and if the vectorized data size is indeed substantially smaller, then that can only help in that regard.


But again, I'm not saying it would *actually* be a killer app for a 10" tablet, but these various reviews don't even seem to give the app a chance to speak for itself.


Sometimes, if you assume something won't matter, it just won't because you're not giving it a chance to matter. You know? Self-fulfilling prophecies and all that?


You're right, I assumed a pre-drive simulation. It might be much smarter than that; that would be quite the improvement.


Why do I disregard an upgraded Google Maps on the Xoom as a big deal? Because we've had Google Maps on smartphones for a couple years and on even a 10" tablet for the past year. And even without the upgrade, it works fast enough for real-time navigation. If Google Maps is not already a killer-app feature, a back-end efficiency improvement that is largely unnoticeable by end users is not going to change that.


Or, I stipulate that Android's integrated voice-nav in Google Maps is already a killer-app; this upgrade is certainly nice but doesn't maker more killer-er.

And more practically: GPSs are used in cars. No one uses a 10" tablet for a car GPS. And as Hanson has explained, urbanites don't navigate NYC with 10" tablets. Google Maps on a 10" tablet will be useful, but not the raison d'etre for a tablet, no matter how good.





As to why reviewers haven't spent words on their reviews about Google Maps on Xoom. I infer that you think they didn't spend time without and so did a disservice to their readers. Perhaps.


Or, they gave it some time, and realized it's the same-old Google Maps everyone's been using for a year on the iPad and two or three years on iPhones and Droids and there's no value spending review verbiage on it.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Seems pointless to debate the Google Maps/Nav thing w/ you, Dave. You seem bent on only seeing this via some preconceived notion of how useful it can possibly be in actual practice.


If Google Maps/Nav wasn't the bee's knees already, no amount of improvement will matter much. And it's pretty evident that at least some of these reviewers probably feel the same way and thus completely ignore the supposed improvements that were claimed and touted by Google and Motorola -- now, again, I'm not saying I know for a fact that the improvements are *THAT* awesome or anything, especially for the larger 10" form factor, but it just seems the essentially complete lack of review coverage on that (and perhaps, certain other on-the-go aspects like videophone) points more to the reviewers' biased outlook and predispositions (and maybe even plain laziness) than whether there's anything worthwhile to mention.


Meanwhile, every single one of those reviewers will at least bother to stick in some blurb about the App Store phenomenon as some sort of substantially meaningful advantage even though very much of that is just pure gimmick and has been repeated ad nauseum already.


_Man_

 

[DaveF]

Hope to find a Xoom at the local stores this morning to spend a few minutes playing

 

[DaveF]

Posting this from a Xoom at my Verizon store

 

[Sam Posten]

Godspeed, Dave... also:

“@timbray: Anyone with a Xoom, you oughta go out and get Air Attack HD. Intense, fast, fun: http://goo.gl/ubK5k”

 

[DaveF]

I played with the Xoom for 20 or 30 (and then a few minutes with the iPad) in the local Verizon Store. The Xoom is a very nice device and Honeycomb washes away all the negative experiences I've had with previous iterations of Android. The combination and hardware and software felt cohesive, and was attractive and responsive. (I agree with the reviewers that the power button is poorly placed and designed, but thought the volume buttons fine.)


Honeycomb represents a different vision for touch use than iOS. In my brief experience, I can't gauge which is better. But that's telling: for the first time, to a cursory look, iOS is not longer blatantly and consistently the superior system to me. And more to Apple's difficulty, the screens-of-icons looks outdated compared to Honeycomb's seemingly flexible and dynamic screens.


The immediate downside, though, is that Honeycomb is a bit fussy. I don't understand the back button. It is a "Back" button in a browser (with no corresponding "Forward" feature) until it dumps me out of the app onto the desktop, where it ceases working. In the movie editor, it backs me through the "create new project" steps I'd done and then again lands me back on the main screen, going no further. And there's no "Forward" to fix one too many "Back" pushes. I don't get it. It seems unpredictable and of dubious use; I preferred the "Home" button. But opinions vary, and I'm now trained and comfortable with Apple's Home button approach.


And the Home button is tedious. It always takes you to the primary home screen. Extra swipes or taps are required to get to the Apps screen or another main screen, if that's where you'd left off. Compare to the iOS home button which always takes you to the icon screen where you were last.


Multitasking seemed to only show the five most recent apps for switching. I like the thumbnail view; it seems like it could be informative. But I couldn't find a way to see the sixth and etc. apps I'd been using. iOS only shows icons, but you can slide through the list of every app you've ever run to find the one to switch. iOS's switcher is simpler, but is more powerful. Maybe I just missed something.


And switching apps outside of multi-tasking was pointlessly hard. Press the Home button on the lower left to get to the home screen, then press the Apps icon on the upper right to get to the apps, then scroll to the app you want. Two touches, on opposite corners, to merely get to the apps. Contrast to iOS's single Home button press to return to the app screen where you'd last been. Android needs to make this better.


The iPad screen looked better, of the two as configured at that store. Having shopped for TVs, I understand that what looks good in a store can be the opposite of what's actually a correct, quality image at home. But the iPad looked better on demo display.


Like the reviewers, I held it in landscape orientation for screen navigation. it just felt better. I preferred portrait for the web browser, but generally it seems meant for widescreen usage. I'm not sure what to make of a widescreen tablet versus the more squarish iPad. My guess is it's what you get used to. Both have benefits and detriments depending on the specific application or website.


But there was much to like to be positive:

The screen was attractive. No problems with it per se.


Touch, drag, scroll -- all smooth and responsive. It felt very good.


The home screens are very flexible. Once you know the magic "Touch and Hold" command (I let the Verizon guy give me his 10 minute sales pitch, which was helpful and informative), you can configure every screen as you wish. That command divides the screen in half, giving mini versions of the home screens on top and widgets on the bottom. Drag a widget onto a mini screen and it's now part of that screen. (Think "Spaces" on the Mac, for something similar.) Back on the actual screens, you can hold and drag widgets around. It brings up a grid to shows how big the widget is and what locations are valid. I found that widgets had seemingly aribtrary rules about where they could go. The Bloomberg (news app) had to be one grid-square from the edge, but many other widgets could be along the edge. It was also initially confusing to me which screen items were widgets and which were applications launchers. Touching the clock widget brought up a dialog on that home screen to set the time, alarms, and other functionality. But touching the Bloomberg widget launched the full app. I suppose the distinctions become clear with a bit more use. And removing a widget from a screen is easy: touch and drag to the "Remove" icon in the top right.


I really like the stats icon in the lower right. A tap shows some basic controls, like "Airplane Mode". A tap from there brings up the full settings interface.

The in-app navigation system was confusing for about ten minutes, until I got it. For example: In the "Gallery" app, keeper of photos and videos, I'd seen a professional movie trailer. But now I was in an album and I couldn't find that movie. I was completely baffled. There was no back button, to go a level higher or any indication that I was limiting the displayed items (Back button only took me to the desktop at this point.) And the I saw in the upper left corner the display of "Photos" was actually a breadcrumb and the gray corner was in fact a navigation arrow. I tapped that region, and it hopped me up a level to all photos screen. Another tap to me to all media, where I again saw the movies. Now that I understand it, it's easy to use. I feel that breadcrumb system could be clearer, but it's a concise system and is easy to use when the design is understood.


YouTube app is interesting. iPad YouTube has some oddities, to me, and Android YouTube has some oddities to me. Both do the job and play videos. Android has the new, fun quasi 3D thumbnail view which makes for a nice demo.

Google Maps. It's Google Maps. At Verizon, it seemed to load data faster than on the iPad. You can rotate the map (two finger spin), and I couldn't do that on the iPad. And the 3D building view (where available) could have its perspective changed (three finger drag). It is superior to the iPad's Google Maps. Probably in all regards it's improved over the iPad version. But the improvements are subtle. And this is probably why no review commented on it: it's not a big deal. It does just what it's always done, in the same way, with the same interface. But a bit faster. And has a nifty demo feature to show you 3D perspective changes in New York City. If Google Maps is your life, then you should definitely buy a Xoom over the iPad.




My final, negative comment: the Marketplace. I took a brief look, and couldn't find any section for "Xoom" or "Tablet" or "Honeycomb" apps. My recollection is the App Store on an iPad shows you specifically iPad apps by default. But I lef the demo believing there are no Xoom-specific or tablet-optimized apps. Maybe that's not correct. But it brings me to something Man said:





Originally Posted by ManW_TheUncool It's crucial; it's arguably the most important aspect of these mobile devices right now. I assume the Xoom will get native apps. But launching seemingly without native apps is a hindrance.



The Xoom. I liked it. In a world without the iPad, I'd buy it. If if it does have a robust suite of native apps in its Marketplace, I'll rescind my previous comments and tell my dad to take a look and buy it if he likes it. The Xoom is good. Really good.

 

[Sam Posten]

As it turns out my house is having a viewing today so i had to scram so I went to the mall to get some keys made. Verizon store is right next to the Hakky so I played with the Xoom for a bit. Thoughts: Very light, which could be good orbad, I liked the weight. Very responsive. The ui is -terrible-. Dark and impossible for me to decipher how to find anything Maps aren't preinstalled, whaaaaaat? The store is a -disaster- The widescreen just looked wrong to me, but I've used an iPad since day 1 Maps looked exactly like Apple maps to me. Hard to see what the big deal is here. Turn by turn instructions and a push out to a secondary street view app? Meh. Plus the device really is too big for me to see a large number of people car mounting it as a gps... Anyway not to be taken as a review, just the initial impressions from someone who is 'all-in' on the Apple philosophy. I tried to be objective tho. These two devices are right next to one another. If I were an alien from another world who hadnt read a million articles about the relative merits of each I would have had a hard time putting a lot of checkmarks in favor of the Xoom over the iPad but there WERE a few I give it kudos for. But none of those remotely overcame the downsides I saw and justified the higher price.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Thanks for the nice firsthand reports, guys. Can't wait to give one a try for myself although it sounds like it'll take an actual trial purchase to give one a truly good spin -- Costco may indeed be the answer to that, especially if their 90-day policy can cover a contract cancellation w/ V.

Originally Posted by DaveF /forum/thread/307559/android-honeycomb-tablet-os-is-official-this-does-not-suck/90#post_3785289

 

[Sam Posten]

Man, You have very valid points. But I will simply ask this: If the Maps app isnt installed by default why in the world should it be considered a make or break point in judging how good a review is? If it isn't that important to Motorola, Verizon and Google that it be on every device, why should the reviewers take up valuable time and print space worrying about it? Should the quality of Angry Birds be a consideration? Apple doesn't have any free apps not installed by default, if they did would they be a necessary review point?


Also, are you comfortable being called Man now? I thought you wanted folks to address you as Man-Fai, which I'm happy to do if you want!

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Wait, Sam, I was not aware that Google Maps is not preinstalled on the Xoom. If that's really case and is the main reason why there's no coverage on it, then that's far more understandable. In that case, I'm guessing that's Verizon's meddling ways playing into things (again) -- I hope they're not also forcing Microsoft/Bing (and VZ Navigator, etc.) on us once again then.


That's really odd, if so, though. Of the various other Android smartphone options out there, Motorola's offerings seem to be less obstructed by V's bundling tactics. IIRC, the Droid X (at least) comes w/ Google Maps and the standard Google bundle rather than Microsoft/Bing.


There's certainly gonna be some potential for conflict of interest w/ V's own VZ Navigator (for GPS service), but I'd think that should be less so for a 10" tablet than a smartphone -- and V's own solution is probably more suited for basic and semi-smart phones anyway rather than full fledged/featured PDA-level devices.


Maybe they are just woefully under-prepared for this launch, and that may be why some Xooms out there are missing Google Maps. I thought Dave got to play w/ it preinstalled, no? At first, you mentioned it's missing from the Xoom you tried out, but then, I thought you added another blurb that suggested otherwise. That actually confused me a bit there.


_Man_


PS: Actually, I've *always* signed off my messages as "_Man_" (since back in the usenet days) -- I went w/ the underscores to make it easier to tell it's actually my name.

 

[Sam Posten]

I won't swear its not there by default, the one in the store I went to didnt have maps, earth or streetview installed and the salesman downloaded them from me via the android marketplace, after MUCH fumbling trying to find it.


On the name thing, cool with me. I swear I remember you having a long post once noting you appreciated it when folks called you Man-Fai instead of just Man, and I tried to do so since, but I may be remembering it wrong!

 

[DaveF]

Originally Posted by Sam Posten




I'm deeply not understanding your perspective, Man.




P.S.



[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]I know you guys are quite happy w/ your iOS-based TomTom apps. But if we're really gonna advance anywhere w/ mobile computing, then the current TomTom model (w/ the entire maps DB taking up very substantial storage footprint) is really becoming quite antiquated. And if you really want cloud computing, then why dismiss a certain critical aspect of that being found in Google's approach to maps/GPS uses?[/COLOR]

That's simple: cellular data access is not ubiquitous, reliable, nor cheap (and memory is comparably cheap and reliable.) Right now, pre-installed map data is the most reliable method for a GPS program.


Or, in a word: "Canada"



P.P.S

I think we all realize the difficulty of "talking" by text. These conversations would be easier, and misunderstandings quickly corrected, in a few minutes of in-person conversation

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Originally Posted by DaveF Well, ok, not exactly. I agree that the KISS principle and that simple and elegant are all very good things -- and that could probably help in terms of communications, etc. But in terms of tech advances to facilitate better communications on the net, maybe Apple's way will just end up being a drag in the long run.


For instance, having true concurrency between something like videophone and other communications and/or workflow type apps would help. But your iOS ecosystem is probably nowhere near getting there yet. The current iPad can't even do FaceTime at all yet -- and probably can't handle true concurrency anyway since Apple didn't even originally plan on multitasking the iPad. Maybe that will change if the rumors about semi-annual updates/releases come true. But for now, I'm guessing you won't get that w/ iPad 2 even though you'll get some sort of FaceTime.


Now, I'm not saying the Xoom can do that (or do that well) either. But we just don't know at this point precisely because no reviewers (mentioned here anyway) seem to bother to cover that (and various other aspects that may not already exist in the iOS world). They are all being too iOS-centric in their reviews and may well miss anything else of significance.


Even the notion that a 10" tablet is too big for use as a driving GPS should really be reconsidered for instance, especially if true concurrency is a reality. Try thinking a little out of the box, and maybe 10" can open up different ways to make fuller use of the device rather than assume it's too big for this or that. Maybe it is indeed too big. But maybe it's more that we haven't really tried -- or that it might not be too big in certain types of vehicles like a good size SUV or minivan. Afterall, plenty of SUVs and minivans come w/ options to include some sort of good (enough) size video display for roadtrip entertainment nowadays. If you can actually fit that near the dashboard somewhere, you can probably fit a 10" tablet instead -- and use it both for navigation and entertainment purposes (and maybe even videophone, if that ever gets anywhere). May seem a bit overkill at first, but maybe you'll get over that impression quickly enough and see how great the size might really be (kinda like how many people feel about having a bigger TV set in their livingroom). I honestly don't know since I haven't actually tried (nor seem a proper demo for that), but I get the feeling it might actually work surprisingly well in a minivan, which is our primary vehicle nowadays. Maybe it'll work better for that in portrait mode too... or maybe not...


_Man_

 

[Hanson]

Dave, I'm guessing you've never used a Blackberry, because the back button in Android basically replicates the back button from the Blackberry. As you drill down further into menus, the back button takes you back up the tree. It's context specific as well, so in browsers it will take you back to the previous page or in emails it will take you back to the main screen. It's funny that it baffles you since one of things in iOS that bugs the crap out of me is that the only button available dumps you out of whatever program you're working in to go back to the app drawer, which is what the home button in Android does. I find the back and menu buttons to be very intuitive and essential to effective UI navigation. Obviously, YMMV.


I understand where Man is coming from with regard to his opinion about apps being gimmicks. It's because >90% of the apps for iOS and Android are gimmicky. There are a handful of very productive apps and then there are games, of which the clear majority are unengaging puzzle games. Since the functionality of the necessary apps can be found in both markets, and because many of the truly great apps have been ported from iOS to Android, the sheer number of apps, which is what a lot of Apple supporters hang their hats on, isn't that big of a deal. And what's really telling is that I recently made a list for my friend's wife of all essential apps for the Galaxy Tab. Other than $1.99 for Swiftkey, all the apps listed were free. Meanwhile, he has to pay a $2-$3 premium for his iPad apps over what he paid on his iPhone including ones he already bought. All of the Market apps I bought for my Evo (all five of them) were able to be installed on the Galaxy Tab at no extra charge. Hmm... I think I've wandered into a different issue altogether.


In any case, I know from back in the WinMo days that finding good apps was a frustrating experience. Many of the productive apps I used were actually homebrew programs made by XDA-Dev members. So the app store concept itself is more than just a gimmick, because I don't think Android would have had a cohesive Marketplace if it weren't for the app store. Between WinMo and BB, a central place for users to download apps just never coalesced. So I tip my hat to Apple for figuring out how to do it. Now, as with most things, the marketing of the app store is tangled up with a lot of gimmickry. That point I won't debate.