And you thought (hoped) colorization was dead.... (1 Viewer)

[AndrewR]

Rick:

Good call on bring Doctor Who to Barry's attention. With all the work the Restoration Team has done with the VIDFire system, I've been hoping and praying they'd find a cost effective way of restoring the color to some of those Who episodes.

Barry:

I plan on buying Reefer Madness ONLY because the B&W original has been restored. As long as you follow that trend, I'll buy whatever titles come out in the future (that I'm interested in, of course).

Good luck!

Andrew

PS - Oh and PLEASE contact the Restoration Team.

(Okay. Doctor Who mode off)

 

[Derek_McL]

I agree on the Doctor Whos as the episodes discussed were originally filmed in colour. Black and white films are a different matter and as I said I'm not against this I suppose for minor titles but the idea that there are some people out there who only "might" accept restored black and white transfers does concern me and also frankly depresses me. I don't want that tendency to spread so if there is indeed a large market for colourisation I find that very worrying indeed particularly for those of us who want to see the films the way they were meant to be seen. So for the All About Eves or even bright musicals like Top Hat please no. If you are already admitting the big market for this and that in the future there are people who won't accept black and white it isn't much of a leap to just colourised transfers without the originals. You might not do it but somebody else might.

 

[Kevin M]

Ok, my problem with these statements is that unless you actually get the blessings & input of the original filmmakers no amount of research will "enhance the mood and intent of the original cinematographer and director", it can only alter it from it's original state.

On the positive you say that in the prosses the original B&W version will (by association) get a much needed restoration, I can't down that at all. If the ends justify the means and the original is respected and preserved then I am all for it, however, even though your intent for now might be honorable, I can't help but see bad things once you start down that road with walmart's "joe average" cash as the primary goal, pan & scan would be the only format had that mindset been strictly adhered to from the start.
As has been said, your intent is not this but you are not the only people with their hands in the game. I hope people like yourself fight the good fight.

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

How many Cocteau and Bergman films were photographed in color when Carnival of Souls was made? I only ask because the creator of CoS, the late Herk Harvey, specifically stated that he wanted it to have "the look of a Bergman and the feel of a Cocteau" and it's obvious that it emulates the black & white look of those two masters very well. Color is certainly not needed on Carnival of Souls.

I applaud your efforts at restoring the public domain films though; pure black & white versions are essential to be preserved. I also assume that the coloring efforts for the studios will get better with time, since the DVDs of the Shirley Temple films and A Christmas Wish are, to put it mildly, ghastly.

 

[Barry_S]

Peter,

The Shirley Temple films you refer to were colorized before I developed the original digital process 12 years ago. The system used was analog and I agree, it was gastly but it was the first colorization effort. Did you know it won a technical Oscar?

You haven't seen the high definition colorization and restoration we completed on "Heidi" last Summer (not released yet). It's spectacular and has all the vibrancy of "Little Princess". By the way, "Little Princess" was the first Technicolor film that Shirley was in. Legend Films found an exceptional print of that feature film and completed both critical color timing and restoration on it. So you see we are not only restoring black and white films. Any films that have evergreen status will be on our restoration list.

Keep in mind the thousands of films that are gone forever. It's only been in the past 15 years that the studios and film buffs have become aware of the deplorable state of our American film heritage. Indeed, if it were not for colorization there would not have been such a broad interest in preservation as there is now. Legend Films is answering the call in a responsible manner but there has to be a revenue incentive for a company to make the effort.

Most of the studios do not have the incentive nor the money to restore their entire libraries. They are chipping away at them but will hardly touch them all. We are working to bring the black and white elements back to their original quality while creating derivative works that are different from the original and offer the viewer a choice.

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

I look forward to checking it out, and I appreciate you coming onto the forum to explain and elaborate the workings of your company.

Q - Have you ever output one of the colorized movies (or the b & w restorations) back to 35mm motion picture film? If so, I'd be very curious to see the results on the screen. In fact, I have a venue that you could use, if you wanted to do a public showing . Big Screen Classics

 

[Barry_S]

Peter -

We're doing color special effects on a feature film that will be released next year. That work was done at 2,000 lines but we could have done the work at 4,000 lines if required. The restoration and colorization was heralded as excellent by the director. I can't divulge the feature film at this time but will let you know when it is released. There is no company other than Legend Films that has technology that defaults high volume colorization at film resolution.

In my former company, AFT we produced the first all digital animation feature for Speilberg. That work was done using the old digital colorization process but marked the first time a new animation feature film was digitally processed outside of Disney's CAP system. The color was excellent though the film was a flop... "We're Back" A Dinasour Story". We also did "The Diner" an animation short by Gahan Wilson. Both held up very well on the big screen.

 

[Jay Taylor]

Count me in as a customer!

Jay Taylor

 

[Steve Phillips]

I've seen the colorized DVD of A CHRISTMAS WISH (aka THE GREAT RUPERT) and it looks exactly like the same old colorization to me. From that example, it doesn't seem the technology is any better than it was 15 years ago.

Still, the fact that restored B/W versions are included on each DVD is a good thing.

Finally, I'm willing to admit I will be curious to see REEFER MADNESS!

 

[Patrick McCart]

While I don't prefer B&W films to be seen in colorized form, it seems like Legend Film's new colorization process can be a great service for other things...

CST Entertainment Inc. (were they related to Legend Films?) colorized about 3 minutes of Phantom of the Opera to re-create stencil color effects and some lost 2-strip Technicolor footage (which survives in B&W). They also colorized portions of "Clair De Lune" for Disney.

 

[Drew Reiber]

For god's sake, the original Night of the Living Dead's B&W look was intentional. They wanted the old newsreel look. Fox is just screwing with art to make it more comercial for the people who don't appreciate these films to begin with. Simply nauseating....

 

[Barry_S]

Patrick - CST was a competitor that originally developed the analog system and later upgraded to a digital system similar to the one I developed for AFT. Both companies went out of business because they grew too large for the market and created a work for hire business. At the end of the day there were no assets to fall back on and Turner was finised with his A and B lists.

 

[Barry_S]

Drew - I suggest you purchase out restored version and skip the colorized derivative work that we used to subsidize the restoration of version you prefer. Thanks for your comments.

 

[Drew Reiber]

What? I do not understand what you just said.

In any case, I'm assuming you're colorizing these works without the approval of the filmmakers. Just because they were low budget does not mean that the black & white look was not taken into consideration when planning the atmosphere (I know George Romero did). I'm also willing to bet that you're only doing Carnival of Souls and Night of the Living Dead because of their lack of rights issues.

Colorization of these classics is no more than a new selling point to compete with the editions which already exist. Both films have already been given director approved restorations with Elite Entertainment, Anchor Bay Entertainment and the Criterion Collection. Just because you're offering the original versions along with them does not excuse these actions.

If you can prove that the manipulation of these prints is condoned by the people who spent years of their lives creating that imagery, my cynicism will disappear. Otherwise I will continue to criticize what I find to be the butchering of hard work, much like Pan & Scan cropping and the like. For the sake of not offending you when you have been gracious enough to respond, I will leave this as my final say on this thread. But know that I am not alone and I will go out of my way to warn others off of your products.

 

[Lew Crippen]

Barry, I’ll be interested to view your finished product. While I am open to something new, I remain cautiously skeptical that colorization will enhance films like Carnival of Souls, although it may possible for films like Heidi.

Still, so long as you are also restoring the original B&W, I am hopeful that this will be a net positive for film lovers.

My thanks for your presence in this thread.

 

[Barry_S]

Lew - Thanks for keeping an open mind and while skeptical, for understanding the economics of restoration. Regarding COS in color, think of it as a different feature, not the original black and white nor a product intended to replace the black and white. It should be a unique eperience that stands on its own. A different interpretation of a great black and white feature film.

The black and white version will be unique in the improved quality and reason enough to purchase the DVD. The colorized version will also have some great commentary by Mike Nelson as will Night Of The Living Dead. The value added material in each of our DVDs (I want to keep much of it a surprise) is entertainiing and funny, funny stuff. This is called entertainment!

 

[Charlie O.]

Just wondering, can you switch on the fly between the color and B&W versions of the film using the angle change button?

 

[Kevin M]

That's a good idea Charlie, I highly doubt it will happen but it would be interesting to make that kind of comparison on the fly.

 

[JeremySt]

I will be picking any and all titles with Mike Nelson Commentary.

 

[Barry_S]

Kevin and Charlie - We intended to introduce the angle change button for on the fly switch between black and white and color. However for several technical reasons that would likely degrade the viewing experience of the final color and B&W product we decided not to put that option into the release.