Aliens and Ghosts.. (1 Viewer)

[Chu Gai]

I get it occasionally too. Seems to occur most when I'm troubled about something and it's typically a religious manifestation. Heaven, hell, the devil...stuff like that. Creeps me out when it happens because I wind up talking in my 'sleep'.

 

[Lew Crippen]

Now I agree with that Will—I’ve never seen any proof either. But is not that the point?

In any case there are plenty of anecdotal stories such as Roswell. And don’t forget the lights at Marfa, Texas—about as isolated a place as exists, that actually has a town name.

As to Jeff’s other points, there have been plenty of people who claimed crop circles to be attributable to aliens—and plenty of non-suburban abductees (especially during the 50s).

 

[Holadem]

Same here. I've had no hallucinations ever since I became aware of it either. In truth, it can actually be kinda fun!

A friend was seriously spooked by this until I told her to google "demon chest sleep" as I didn't remember the actual name. Problem solved...

--
H

 

[Radioman970]

Anybody read Communion? That book scared the crap out of me. But then he wrote a sequel and it was as bad as E.T. The Extraterestrial 2 would be. He sure wrote one good book about abduction.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Exactly.

Will, although you tried to discount my "tongue in cheek" stereotypes, you still have not answered why these aliens do not plunk themselves down in a huge population area and say "We're here, we come in peace" or "We're here, dinner is served". Since you only admit the cladestine traits are true (although Lew's excellent post addresses most of the others), why exactly are they so clandestine? Maybe for the same reason ghosts seem to disappear whenever skeptics are around? Also, how exactly do you explain the sleep paralysis phenomena, which describes to a 'T' every "aliens came into my bedroom and studied me" encounter ever written? I, like H, have hallucinated some pretty weird stuff in that state, including stuff I could attribute to aliens if I were preconditioned to believe it, and none of it was real. Those 'aliens' went *poof* and disappeared as soon as I realized that my mind was playing tricks on me. Either that, or sleep paralysis is all an alien smokescreen and I've been repeatedly sodomized on many a night. If that is the case, I really don't want to know

 

[Will_B]

Sleep paralysis is a perfectly reasonable guess for any psychologist to make, because the initial moments of an alien encounter sound rather similar to the hypnogogic/hypnopompic states of consciousness during which time our bodies are paralysed.

That similarity is why I tend to agree that alien contact may involve an altered state of consciousness. Yet people who have had both experiences say it is not the same as the hallucinations of sleep paralysis - the paralysis doesn't last, the beings aren't vague floating shapes, and the interactive quality of communications back and forth isn't fleeting. And the interactions are not limited to sight - people touch these beings, and get touched by them. If they are hallucinations, they'd be very powerful. So people should be reporting similar powerful hallucinations that do not involve aliens. I don't think a wet dream about Paris Hilton quite covers it.

I think the reason why you won't see psychologists suggesting that maybe these are actual communications with some other part of reality is because it sounds too much like theological beliefs that there is more to the world. Sounds too much like communication from the spirit world or whatever various religions have dubbed it.

But I am reminded of Brian Green's wonderful public television special The Elegant Universe, where he talked with great enthusiasm about the possibility of parallel worlds that were, according to him, suggested by string theory. I'll take his word for that since I'm not a physicist. And in a vignette he ventured that perhaps one day we'll be able to communicate between these worlds. In the vignette he picks up a telephone, and in a split screen image, a grey alien (the show's depiction of a being living in another dimension) picks up another phone and says "hi, Brian". It was amusing. And possible, a prediction of what we'll find someday.

Maybe, another race has already found a way to communicate across worlds. Maybe even to bring worlds together for a few moments.

The "high strangeness" of alien encounters sounds a lot less like tales of flying saucers, and more like something from the mind of David Lynch. Maybe we are beginning to develop the language we need to accurately describe these experiences without sounding like a monk.

 

[Will_B]

Yeah, that was good. This week's People magazine says his new book - a novel this time - is a must-read.


Disclaimer: I don't read People Magazine, nor would Paris Hilton be my choice of wet-dream. Mena Suvari, please.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Will, if you've never experienced sleep paralysis, you would not know how powerful the hallucinations can be. I had one where I was shot in the chest. I experienced the gunshot (it's what "woke me up"), all the pain, lack of movement, and "near death experience" that may/may not go along with it. Had another where the room was shaking and the ceiling was coming down, not to mention the closet opened up into the night sky. It felt just like an earthquake for about 30 seconds. All I can say is at least I don't sleepwalk and talk like my crazy older brother who once tried to strangle me in my sleep.

Ockham's Razor strongly suggests that "aliens" are not taking advantage of the altered state of sleep paralysis to suddenly slip in and do their dirty work. Rather it states that if someone is in a state of sleep paralysis, which can induce incredibly vivid "awake dreams" (hallucinations), then these hallucinations are probably to blame for the perceived alien visitation. This coincides nicely with the fact that prior to modern science fiction depicting alien craft and visitors, these "incidents" were described as demonic possession, with vivid descriptions of the demons of the day taking advantage of the helpless victim. Certainly you are not going to suggest the aliens waited until Jules Verne and H.G. Wells were published before they decided to start their nocturnal visits dressed up as little grey/green men with big eyes (instead of appearing as devils with horns, that is)?

 

[Will_B]

Yeah, I've had sleep paralysis, where it felt like a weight was on my chest. Lasted about 30 seconds before I woke up completely. That's what those demon stories you refer to are about, right? Little demons that sat on people's chests?

Ockham's Razor is overused. The simplest explanation is often *not* the correct explanation. If the modern world has taught us anything, it has taught us that.

 

[cafink]

I disagree that Occam's razor is overused. Unfortunately, its most common phrasing, which suggests that "the simplest explanation is the best one," can be somewhat misleading.

Occam's razor is about making the fewest assumptions neccessary to explain a phenomenon. As it applies here, why invoke an explanation that involves aliens or demons when there is a perfectly valid alternative, with equal explanatory power, that does not? As aliens and demons are not neccessary to explain the phenomenon in question, there is no reason to invoke them to do so.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Did you read my own descriptions of sleep paralysis? Quite a bit more than a demon on my chest. Also, it seems quite a few of those aliens sat on people chests also, if I read the stories right. I do see you did not address the fact that the "alien" stories mysteriously coincide with the development of modern science fiction. Do you always dismiss everything that does not fit your worldview as irrelevant or simply non-existent, or are you still "sparing (me) any discomfort that may arise from noting that much of the stereotype material (I) presented is not based upon anything?" Trust me, I can handle the discomfort, fire away!

It is true that Ockham's Razor is overused. I forgot to also add the scientific axiom that says to "go where the data leads you". Sorry, the data leads to a biochemical hallucination explanation much more than a cross dimensional alien anal probe explanation. Hence, Ockham's fits this situation very well.

 

[Chu Gai]

I don't know how long my episodes were, but while they were happening they seemed frightfully long.

 

[RobertR]

If the simplest explanation accounts for all the observed facts (as with Jeff's sleep paralysis), why is anything more "exotic" needed?

 

[MarkHastings]

Have you seen some of these people that claim a ghost was sitting on their chest???

If I were a ghost, I wouldn't be sitting on their chests; I'd be sitting on Pamela Andersons chest.

 

[DeathStar1]

That's what I don't get either. Freeza had learned to exist in Space without imploding, There's a Giant Rock Monster in Galaxy Quest.....who's to say aliens HAVE to have the same biological properties as us?

If memory is correct, the reason for finding water on mars is that that means there must have been life there. Again, who says aliens need water? Maybe they ARE the water .

 

[DeathStar1]

Great point though; until aliens became part of the culture (Jules Verne, H.G. Wells and other early science fiction onward), aliens did not exist and everything was blamed on demonic possession or witchcraft. Funny how those spaceships and little green men never really entered the world until someone thought them up (aside from the old Leonard Nimoy In Search Of series which tried to claim Ezekiel's "wheel in the sky" was somehow a spaceship).>>>

I remember that old series...it was either filmed in the 60's, or in the 80's with bad production values. But I'll be damned if I remember what it's focus was..

 

[Holadem]

Have you read Arthur C. Clarke's Childhood's End?

--
H

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Actually, it was the 70's. The focus was Bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster, Hauntings, UFO's, basically the "unexplained". I used to watch it religiously when I was 11 and 12. Then I grew up.

 

[BrianW]

Carl, I raced home to put in my 2 cents regarding Occam's razor, but you beat me to it. Thanks for getting to the root of the axiom.
[sigh...]

 

[Jeff Gatie]

****Reminds self to learn how to spell Occam****

****Googles . . . Googles . . . Googles . . . ****

****Pats self on back for getting one of two spellings correct****