ae700 vs ae900 difference in PQ ?

Discussion in 'Displays' started by steveGamble, Jun 23, 2006.

  1. steveGamble

    steveGamble Stunt Coordinator

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] Any body seen these two ?

    Any body notice the increase contrast ? I have heard it is so close.
    is it worth the price difference.?

    If you are buying for the first time. dark room, 92" display.
     
  2. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Very hard to tell ... especially in two rooms. As good as they tout the 900 is for blacks ... it's not that much better than the 700.

    If the price is close ... get the 900 ... newer ... if not ... 700 and a grayscreen and you would be more than fine.

    Both still have the typical LCD weaknesses like screen uniformity issues and such as well as blue polarizor failure over time.

    Regards
     
  3. steveGamble

    steveGamble Stunt Coordinator

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    I can get a refurb ae700 for 999.00
    or a refurb. ae900 for 1249.00
    The store claims refurb for resale by panny after 300 hours demo or whatever ?
    I worry about the polorizing? eBay stores may be hard to make claims with.
    In store locally they are pricy and the ae700 discontinued, so considering an ae700, used at a bargain ?
    I'd just get a new H31 Optoma for DVD... but at 1.5X screen width?? SDE?
     
  4. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    The effects of polarizer degradation do not begin to really show itself until well after 700 hours on the unit. It comes faster if the unit had poor ventilation.

    An annoyance ... but it is unavoidable. A $100 part that needs to be replaced likely every 1200 to 1500 hours tops to maintain optimal perfomance.

    Nothing quite like slowly watching the blue elements of the image fade slowly. At its extreme by 4000 hours ... the image is entirely green and red. No blue remains in the image.

    SDE is a non issue on the Panasonic units especially with the smoothscreen feature they have. Only a factor if you plan on standing 2 to 3 feet from the image all the time. At normal viewing distances ... nothing.

    Given the prices that you mention ... 1k to 1.25k ... I say it's a wash. Can't be too critical about image quality at this price point ... both would serve you quite well. Still recommend a gray screen to watch this on. Best for LCDs.

    Regards
     
  5. Bob Maged

    Bob Maged Stunt Coordinator

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    Polarizer degradation is not a given. I have over 4100 hours (all with the original bulb) on my PT-L200U and there is little, if any, sign of polarizer degradation. I did notice watching the Stanley Cup finals some times when the rink ice did not look perfectly white (slightly yellowish around the edges of the screen), but otherwise colors are still very good. As with anything else HT, YMMV.
     
  6. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    That's good to hear ... but have you compared it to what it looks like fresh?

    The change is very slow ... and when I point it out to people, they initially just don't notice. No point of reference.

    Probably a good idea to order in the part ... swap it in ... see if it really makes a difference and then make that determination.

    When I first noticed the phenomenon many years ago, I figured it was mild ... right up until I placed a similar projector right next to it with a fresh plate ... then I realized that it wasn't mild afterall ...

    (Same reason why people don't realize their TV images have blue grayscales. Over time, it looks neutral to them ... until it gets compared to the reference.)

    Regards
     
  7. steveGamble

    steveGamble Stunt Coordinator

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    VERY EXCELLENT info Michael, can't thank you enough.
    K..I finally got to go see a 720p projector.
    Hitachi pj tx100 , wow very bright, vibrant, colorfull picture, and the unit had 2340 hours on it. Screen door was slightly visible, not too bad but maybe a tad more than I like. Otherwise WOW ! Impressed. $2249.00 too much for me.
    Anybody see one of these ?
    Compare it to a sanyo Z? or panny ae700 900? The guy at future shop never heard of these models to tell me how they compare ? who in the projector sales world never heard of Sanyo and Panasonic.
    Although they mostly sold business projectors, infocus Lp640 was there other one .

    So any hitachi tx100 owners vs Panny, sanyo.?

    oh and this $100 part, does that mean this polarization can be repaired ?
    can most projectors as they age be brought back to new performance at a reasonable cost.
    In case I buy used, and need to repair it.?
     
  8. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    For the record, polarizer plate degradation is not a fatal flaw of the technology. It is merely an annoyance that one should be aware of going in.

    We tend to think that the only consumable part in the projector is the bulb, when in the case of LCD ... there is another part. Likes tires and brake pads on the car ... tires we know about ... brake pads we tend not to think about.

    The part typically costs about $100 and can be ordered directly from the manufacturer ... Panasonic in this case. The plate can be replaced by the user and it takes about 15 minutes to do it. Generally, once you get the covers off ... you see it close to the back end of the lens ... and the part slides in and out. There are three plates ... one for the red ... one for green and one for blue.

    When completed, the color palette is pretty much completely rejuvinated and like new again. Good to go again.

    When you take out the "spent" plate ... it looks like a small piece of glass where the center is now totally transparent. Think of a piece of paper and putting a lighter to the center of the page and watching the paper burn outward from the center.

    Places like FS and BB will not carry the Panny or the Sanyo because there is no margin in it for them. They realize that people will just use them for demo purposes and buy the items online. A waste of inventory. So they carry things that tend not to be on the net ... hence nothing to price match or compete against.

    Regards
     
  9. steveGamble

    steveGamble Stunt Coordinator

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    VERY good, Yes I can't find a hitachi tx100 ever on eBay.
    My wife says get the hell off there, I'm gonna get taken by a scam artist?
    I gotta take a chance if I want a deal.
    WOW..
    so pretty much used projectors, can be spiffed up at a reasonable cost, should I need a bulb ao a lens plate color thing.?

    I feel better bidding on a used one now.
    ae700u for under a thousand.
    usually claim 200 to 700 hours?
    But I don't mind needing a bulb or a part in a short time If I get a deal.

    I wish I could get a new H31,, but that darn SDE at 1.5 x screen width, I hear about.
    costco.ca sell them 1399.00 with grayhawk screen 92" . and a 30 day satisfaction policy.
    Hmmm..
    None on display to see though.
     
  10. David_Rivshin

    David_Rivshin Second Unit

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    Going off-topic for just a moment:
    *I* notice it on my TV (Panasonic CT-32HL42), and I've been watching it for nearly 4 years now. And to this day it annoys me whenever the picture is substantially grey or black. Everytime I go in to recalibrate it I spend hours trying to tweak the blue-grey out of it, but it seems that's the lesser of all the evils available to me.
    Don't get me wrong, it's not horrible, or worse than any worse than other comparable TV's I've seen, I'm just really picky about such things. I also notice geometry problems in TV's or computer monitors from across the room, when noone else seems to really care.

    To bring this post slightly back towards topic, I'm also considering an AE900 for movie watching. Only $1400 brand new after the Panasonic $400 rebate available right now is very tempting. Of course then I know I'd want to upgrade it in 2 years to a 1080p model. At that point you're in the total cost ballpark of a 60" SXRD, which looks pretty tempting as well. I think I'll wait to see what Panasonic and Sanyo come out with this fall. Who knows, maybe they'll have a decently priced 1080p model. Decisions, decisions.

    -- Dave
     
  11. steveGamble

    steveGamble Stunt Coordinator

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    Well, I did it.
    eBay...Panasonic ae900u...860 hours...1,128.00 delivered.
    Just hope it arrives ok ?
    Now for a screen ?
    92 to 100 inch..manual pull down preferred.
    matt white...or....high contrast grey ? ? sealed ,dark room.
    will screen quality make that much difference ?
    Elune vision screens on eBay...cheap?
    Local store has some Draper Luma, matt white or high contrast grey ?
    but on 92" or 106" 106 won't fit where I need it. 100" max. which I like.
    Also considered DIY...goo systems...there also not cheap.
    185.00 per liter CDA, plus 45.00 for base coat. canadian. ?
    BOY...another hurdle.
     
  12. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Just use $30 worth of comet gray paint ... to start.

    Regards
     
  13. steveGamble

    steveGamble Stunt Coordinator

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    Grey paint is a bad idea. I saw a grey Goo screen...VERY DULL appearence.
    compared to a matt white.
    I'm down to a Matt white Da-Lite B ......or a high power 2.8 gain white Da-Lite.
    Same price range.
    high power gives a brigher, more punch, more vibrant color, look.
    But narrow cone view.
    I am 10.5 feet back, from a ?92" to 99" maybe but sitting right in the middle.
    pannyae900u back wall on shelf just above the exact middle of screen.
    might be ideal for me ??
    anyone seen these high power...high gain screens ?
     
  14. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    I used comet gray and put up a 4'x4' piece of grayhawk screen material ... (figuring that the Stewart guys know what they are doing)

    The material vanished into the wall. Could not tell where the paint ended and where the real screen material began.

    Gray paint is not a bad idea ...

    Gray screens versus high gain screens ...

    You have to figure out what is more important to you. Blacks or light output. Looks like you have decided. Light output wins this time at the cost of the black levels.

    Regards
     
  15. steveGamble

    steveGamble Stunt Coordinator

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    Well the grey screen goo I saw was very dull next to a matt white.
    Whites looked Light grey also.
    blacks looked so close, I could not tell the difference.
    colors were at least 5 X richer , more vibrant..I mean it was really night and day difference.
    I asked the sales guy how did he expect to sell that screen with both side by side like that ?
    He said they were pushing the projector, on the white screen, so when they have a projector to sell...they put it on the white screen because it looked SO... much better.
    By the way...a 1400. sharp on the white screen.
    a 3,000. Panasonic on the grey screen.
    I would've trade the panny there on the spot.

    I really believe screens should be demo'd and not go by brand, price , etc..
    claiming. neutral, contrast, blacks, wide cone view, etc.., etc..
     

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