Advanced Anime Discussion Part III (1 Viewer)

[ShaunS]

If a "newbies" thread starts up, let me know. I'm one!

I think I was pre-conditioned to become an anime fan having watched Robotech as a child. I wonder how many current fanatics had it as an introduction? When it was released on DVD I almost wet my pants. Watching them again was like reliving my childhood, but instead of patiently waiting through all of the romance guck that any pre-teen hates to reach the violence, this time I soaked it all in.

To get back into it I've watched (as per glowing reccomendations on such websites as animeondvd.com) Cowboy Bebop and Escaflowne (am I the only one that hated the movie?), as well as a 3-part show "Read or Die", and I'm currently watching the X tv series. I've only seen up to episode 2, and I'm still on the fence about it. Seems to be quite a large cast of similar looking characters to keep track of. And I don't know if I like the whole "angular" drawing style. However, I do plan on sticking it out. I'm also up to episode 9 of Neon Genesis Evangeline. I'm a bit worried about reports of a weak ending, however it is shaping up to be a great series so far.

As far as loved ones becoming fans, my GF finds my recent sudden obsession with anime a bit disturbing. I hear her sigh each time she comes in the front door and hears Japanese being spoke in the den. I think she finds it all too dramatic for her taste.

Shaun

 

[Tony-B]

I started an argument!
But before this gets out of hand, let me explain once again why I am going to choose the dub the first time I watch Cowboy Bebop.

• I do not have much experience with subtitles.
• I do not want to be focusing on the subtitles, and missing what is going on the first time.
• I will better understand it.
• It is simply easier for me to do.

I will revisit Cowboy Bebop in the future with the original language, but for right now, I am sorry, but I need to listen to it modified. You may try to convince me otherwise, but I don't think it will work.

 

[JasonRH]

Tony,
Don't be sorry. The advantage of dvd's are that they offer choices like multiple languages in the 1st place. Watch the dub, which is excellent btw, and enjoy it. I watch nearly everything subbed but I have no problem with the way others want to enjoy a product they've paid for. Have fun

 

[Andy_Bu]

That's it, I am done.
I am so sick and tired of the "watch subs or your an idiot" attitude all too many people have here.
If this "god-like" attitude is what being an anime fan is all about, you can have it.
Comparing it to pan and scan just is SO wrong for SO many reasons and I swear people only do this to be inflammatory because they know everyone hates pan and scan.
Ask yourself this? Can you imagine a popular pan and scan forum on HTF? Of course not. But then use the same logic and wonder why the dub forum on www.animeondvd.com is popular.
http://forums.animeondvd.com/dcboard...opics&forum=15
Oh #%$@ it, its not worth it anymore.
Andy

 

[Woo Jae]

Hmmm...
I guess it finally happened: sub vs. dub "war" of sorts. It took three uber long threads until someone exploded, but it happened. :frowning:
Ultimately, it is a matter of personal preference, given that a DVD usually has dual audio tracks for English and Japanese. Let's just keep it at that level, and not go into why one prefers one over the other. Pretty Please??
Anyhow, Tony-B:
See if you can get your dad to dish out the money for ONE disc. That will be easier than the whole she-bang. Alternatively, save money and ask him when you have the money ready to get the set. Good luck...
If you set up a NEW thread for NEWBIES, I will gladly contribute reviews and review websites to help a newbie get into anime. Let us know so that we can help newbies into this (expensive) hobby.
Ranma 1/2 is one of the most popular series of anime by Rumiko Takahashi that has been around for a while. But it was only recently that the DVDs have been released as boxed sets. I also highly recommend the manga released as graphic novels by Viz - they are slow to be released, but worth every penny.

 

[Andy Kent]

Yeah, sub versus dub is pretty much moot; you've got a DVD and the opportunity to try both, unless it's a show that was edited and got an uncut, subtitled release... in which case, that tells you a lot about which one to get anyway! ;p

I mean, you guys know which side of the debate I'm on - I'm not crouched over a hot genlock, slaving away at timing for nothing, after all. But even then, I don't have any illusions that I'm providing the anime in pure form...

Even the best subtitle tracks out there (and I've done some of those, so I'm speaking from experience here) have compromises in them. Untranslatable puns, references to children's stories that I've never heard or to legends that I've never studied or to things that are Western but utterly silly (like Churchward; can anybody explain Japan's tendency to reference the Lost Continent of Mu?) And every so often you get something that just makes the translators, the Japanese office, and the fans of the show just sit there and scratch their heads... "Were they trying to be stupid here? It doesn't make any sense!"

And then there was Excel Saga!

There are good reasons to watch a dub. The first is that, well, it's hard to watch and appreciate subtitles without having at least a nodding acquaintance with the culture. If you don't know the difference between -chan, -san, and -pyon, it can get pretty confusing. I'm not saying that people shouldn't learn, just that it's pretty hard to just jump into with both feet.

And yes, dubs are getting better. While I still pick the subs every time myself, quite a lot of the dubs that I hear nowadays are fine (or, at least, not of the sort that make my ears bleed! ;p)

 

[Tony-B]

See if you can get your dad to dish out the money for ONE disc. That will be easier than the whole she-bang. Alternatively, save money and ask him when you have the money ready to get the set. Good luck...

Woo, the thing is this. One of the selling points I made about getting this is that it is cheaper than buying each one by itself. I do have almost enough money (I currently have $70), but $20 of it is in a Best Buy gift card. So that creates a problem. I am going to try and exchange it with my brother for cash. I am also going to tell my dad that I will pay him back over time. Woo, trust me, it is going to happen.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Andy

Even the best subtitle tracks out there (and I've done some of those, so I'm speaking from experience here) have compromises in them. Untranslatable puns, references to children's stories that I've never heard or to legends that I've never studied or to things that are Western but utterly silly (like Churchward; can anybody explain Japan's tendency to reference the Lost Continent of Mu?) And every so often you get something that just makes the translators, the Japanese office, and the fans of the show just sit there and scratch their heads... "Were they trying to be stupid here? It doesn't make any sense!"

Liner notes. Liner Notes, Liner Notes

Don't dumb down, EDUCATE

 

[Rob Gardiner]

Thanks, John, for the link and Jeff, for the info.
Jeff, do you have a favorite sub script site you could point me to?
***
On the sub vs dub issue, I always watch with subs myself but I understand Tony's position. There is one exception: if and when Samurai Pizza Cats is ever released, I would like both the subs and the English dub. I understand this cartoon was exported to many countries and the dialogue was always re-written rather than translated, in order to incorporate different cultural references, etc. I have only seen the English dub on Fox years ago, but I found it very funny and clever. Full of self-referential humor that I doubt was in the original Japanese (characters commenting on the set design or camera angle or another character's line of dialogue). Also lots of references to Frank Sinatra, etc. that I also tend to doubt were in the original. This is one case where I would like to have both subs and dubs available. Do you guys think I'm crazy for even liking this show?

 

[Rob Gardiner]

Liner notes. Liner Notes, Liner Notes

Yes! The most thorough liner notes I've come across were in Urusei Yatsura. What a marvelous job. I also appreciate the "supertitle" track that accompanies the subtitles and gives brief explanations of cultural references, etc. Have any other anime discs done such a thorough job on liner notes?

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Rob, pretty much all AnimEigo product has great liner notes, and you can link off of http://www.nausicaa.net for Conan and Lupin scripts
Otaku no Video has about 6 pages of notes, Macross has about 20 or so

 

[Ted Lee]

quick question. i noticed you guys using the term "otaku" more often. i thought it had a negative connotation?
just curious...
fwiw, i don't mind dubs...especially when i want to focus on the visuals.

 

[Rob Lutter]

From The Otaku Dictionary...
Otaku (oh-TAH-kuu)
n. - From the Japanese, literally meaning "house". In Japan, the term refers to someone with a heavy, and sometimes near-religious interest in something. In the Japanese culture it also carries a derogatory meaning, in the context of being someone with no real social or personal life outside of the object of their obsession (much like the term "fanboy" or "nerd" in Western culture). However, outside of Japan, the term may or may not carry a derogatory meaning depending on the person being referred to. Many anime fans in Western cultures proudly call themselves otaku, preferring to use the term to describe themselves as a "hard core", or knowledgeable, anime fan.
Rob.

 

[Ted Lee]

lol. good enough for me. thx rob "uber-cool anime fan in the u.s., but total geekboy in japan" lutter.

 

[JohnAD]

Brendan:
All good points, although some anime, such as Akira are animated to the Japanese mouth movements.
Jeff, Andy:

Liner notes. Liner Notes, Liner Notes
Don't dumb down, EDUCATE

Exactly. More of these should be done, like the excellent ones done by Animeigo, or those included in the GTO disks.
John.

 

[Kong Chang]

Hmm, a sub vs dub flame war has started...cool. Makes for an interesting thread.
Rob:
The reason why "otaku" means "house" is because most Otaku's live, really inside their house, their whole microcosm and macrocosm exists solely in their room and with no social life outside of it. It's a very unhealthy way to live and it's considered a very deragotory label.
You should watch Otaku no Video. That will steer you away from being a true "Otaku". Just watch the non-anime parts. *heh heh*
TonyB:
I feel your pain. But you're 16, which means, you're legal to have a part-time job. You should look into working at minimum wage someplace.
Ted:
Visuals? You can watch subs and watch visuals because the frame rate of anime tends to be very low for most tv series, there's nothing you will miss, plus if you're a speed reader, you definitely won't miss much.

 

[Ted Lee]

sorry kong...

by visuals i mean the small, minute type details. silly things like dirty walls & graffiti, shadow effects, crowd facial expressions, signs, details on cars, buildings, etc.

i like to see just how detailed some anime is and how much "effort" they put into the nuances.

for stuff like that i certainly can't pay attention to the words.

 

[Rob Lutter]

Tony, need a job at Target? I can give you a recommendation! (send me an IM and I can give you my employee/team #) In Florida, I started at $6.50 per hour ($1 over minimum wage!)
This summer I am working in an accounting office doing some IT work (fun! :rolleyes... but for more $$$ )

 

[Brendan Brown]

'Otaku no Video' reigns supreme as the (Ota?)king of liner notes, at least in print form. 'Irresponsible Captain Tylor' also has a great deal of episode-specific notes on the discs themselves (although you have to look for them.)
I'd check out the highly acclaimed (yet under-distributed) 'FLCL' for an example of an excellent insert booklet, containing (among other things) translations of all the Japanese liner notes for all the volume content on the domestic disc.
Of course, I'll use any excuse to bring up 'FLCL' in any context

 

[Kong Chang]

Ted:
You know, they made this great invention called a "pause button". Have you heard of it?