Acclaim dropping support for Gamecube (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Kleist]

Nope, no GBA. I have never owned a Nintendo system, and I likely never will. Though Phantasy Star Collection and the new JSR game is awfully tempting

 

[Masood Ali]

I'm reading so many posts with suggestions by people about how the Gamecube is doomed. Could those people answer a few simple questions:

1)Even if the Gamecube is a much smaller source of revenue than the GBA, if they are still making money on it, why dump it?

2)Do you think the top Nintendo execs care more about third party support and maintaining the credibility of their console, or making money?

3)Do you realize that even if all third-party support ceased on the Gamecube (which won't happen...we'll see at least one more cycle of games from Capcom, Square, EA, etc.) and if the only games available for the Cube were first-party, it would still generate positive cash flow for Nintendo?

Console companies aren't controlled by fanboys who are merely interested in putting out the most games, the best quality games, pleasing third parties, and getting positive press coverage regardless of cost...(well maybe Microsoft doesn't mind losing a buck or two)...they are interested in money first. They will surely try to increase profits if possible, but they won't disgrace themselves by giving up when they are still taking money to the bank.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

3)Do you realize that even if all third-party support ceased on the Gamecube (which won't happen...we'll see at least one more cycle of games from Capcom, Square, EA, etc.) and if the only games available for the Cube were first-party, it would still generate positive cash flow for Nintendo?

Again, are you sure? Nintendo only publishes their overall numbers, not a by-system breakdown

 

[David Lee]

And Microsoft is making money on Xbox? What happens in two years when a new console is released and they have to eat the cost of the system [thay all do] to be competitive. Will they rely on their amazing first party games to make up the cost. If anything, Microsoft would pull the plug quicker than Nintendo would. All Nintendo has is games, so they have to stick by it. Microsoft doesn't need Xbox, so I don't think they would stay if they aren't making money. Sony is kicking both of their asses, so just enjoy the games that are on all the systems. They're all great.

 

[JayV]

Microsoft doesn't need Xbox, so I don't think they would stay if they aren't making money.

(How did we turn this into an Xbox thread?)

I don't think this statement is supported, either by Microsoft's statements (attach your own value here ), by their history, or by their future planning.

If you consider the cost of the Xbox to Microsoft conceptually as an R&D cost, suddenly our analysis is a bit different and we are no longer comparing apples to apples when we try to apply a traditional console company's calculus to Microsoft.

There are many plans -- from making MS hardware/software your living room's hub to making PC gaming a smoother experience -- to which know-how from the Xbox is integral.

As for MS's history, they have shown a surprising willingness to stick with a turkey in order to build know-how and a user-base for future use. How many versions of Windows or MS applications did we go through before they became de facto standards in computing?

I'm am certainly not arguing that MS will never dump the Xbox or exit the console gaming arena. But I do suggest that simply comparing balance sheets between MS and Nintendo (or Sony, for that matter) will not provide useful information by itself.

-j

 

[Allen_Appel]

Wandering a little bit here, but what do people think will happen when the next systems are released? Will third-party developers continue to make games for those old crappy consoles, the Xbox and GC and PS2, the way PS1 games are still being released, or will they switch their efforts to the new generation? Will Tony Hawk Pro Skater 7 be on PS1, PS2 and PS3? It doesn't seem like there's enough money for multi-platform/multi-generation ports, considering publishers are currently abandoning the GC as not having a viable customer base. If the user base for the next generation isn't big enough fast enough, I don't see how we can get that many new third-party games for them. Or conversely, we'll end up with an Xbox doorstop. Will this generation's consoles achieve Dreamcast-like cult status, and we'll say things like, "Zelda:Wind Waker, now that was a great game, not like what the punks today are playing"?

Also, what are people hoping for in the next generation? Photo-realistic games? That might be nice for a driving game, but how do you think Congress will react to a war game that is visually indistinguishable from reality (besides hypocritically wanting it for training our troops)? Gigantic levels that take months to explore? Games so complex and expensive they cost $200 if the publisher hopes for any profit at all?

Just curious.

 

[James D S]

besides hypocritically wanting it for training our troops.

Hypocritically?

 

[Allen_Appel]

As in, "This game is an affront to our values! The public must be protected from such imagery! It has to be banned!...Um, Mr. Carmack, could the Army have ten thousand copies?"

 

[Ray Warner]

Or just bring up the woes of the industry in general.

As far as Nintendo's GC woes go...

To bottom-line it, none of us know for sure. Who here works for Nintendo, has access to this information, and knows for certain what's retoric, what their numbers actually are, and how they plan on adressing the future, plus is willing to spill the beans about it to a bunch of schmucks on a Home Theater Forum?

Nobody. It's all speculation, and we could be proven wrong tomorrow.

Remeber, no company is going to proudly proclaim the fact that they, or one of their investments, is swirling down the crapper as they speak. Sega didn't admit defeat until it was obvious. With Nintendo, the writing is clearly on the wall, even though it's something that those who shelled out the cash for the system (which includes myself) would rather ignore.

That said...

I don't think Nintendo has pockets nearly as deep as those of Microsoft, or Sony, for that matter. Not even close. This wasn't always the case, of course, and they've still got cash, lots of it, left over from Pokemon, so I don't see Nintendo folding any time soon.

I think what's going to kill them is their arrogance about it. When Nintendo was in it's heyday, they ruled the roost and knew it. They could bully developers and retailers, Microsoft style, and did. They absolutely refused to play by anyone's rules but their own - they made the rules, plain and simple. To quote David Sheff, the general rule with Nintendo in the early 90's was that "you don't fuck with an 800 pound gorilla." Now, they're at 200 pounds, tops, but they sure do like to throw the imaginary 600 around with it.

This isn't going to work, and it hasn't been. Nintendo has been mind-bogglingly slow to realize that developers have alternatives in this day and age, and will gladly take them if given half the chance. The N64 stands as permanent proof of this, and it looks like the GameCube is headed the same route. Acclaim today, Capcom tomorrow.

 

[Romier S]

Acclaim today, Capcom tomorrow.

Of course Capcom has supported supposed "failing" platforms in the past so thay may have been a bad example of a developer Ray. Capcom threw some serious support behind the Dreamcast and I'm sure Saturn owners will profess the wonderful 2D fighting scene on that system. I seriously do not see Capcom dropping support for the GC anytime soon. Especially considering they are one of the few third parties that have actually enjoyed some level of success on the system.

Nonethless I'm getting into a specific developer here which was besides your point but I felt the need to extrapolate.

 

[Ray Warner]

Oh yeah, I know. What I should have explained is that Nintendo can loose Acclaim - in fact, good riddance. If they loose Capcom, they're screwed, with the implication that Capcom would be the last to leave and they'd be up the creek for good.

You're absolutely right, though. Capcom, thankfully, is probably even more stubborn than Nintendo, and they'll most likely support the Gamecube long after all reason states that they should have run like the wind.

Thank God for Capcom.

Konami, take some notes.

 

[Kelley_B]

As Metal Slug's #1 fan, I have to defend number 4....sure its not the best game in the series, but its still more Metal Slug, and thats never a bad thing. Am I looking forward to a 3D version, sure if they are able to keep the gameplay intact then bring on the polys.

Jeff, after reading this thread I finally know what you are High Priest of....All Bow Kliest, High Priest of the Moronic Asshats Who Really Know Nothing but Act Like They Know Everything.

 

[David Lee]

Jeff reminds me of a friend who tells me how good or bad a movie is without actually seeing it. Never owned a Nintendo, but craps on every Nintendo thread whether it's GBA or GCN. You also talk a lot about Malata[ on the Region DVD section], do you actually own one. Post a review Of SW:Episode three. Or recommend a car that you've never driven.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

You also talk a lot about Malata[ on the Region DVD section], do you actually own one. Post a review Of SW:Episode three. Or recommend a car that you've never driven.

No I don't. Several good friends do though, again 100+ hours all told viewing its overall quality and capabilities. And outside of some complaints about remotes, I have yet to hear anyone complain about it.

I would rather have Nintendo in business than Sony or Microsoft. It should be those 2 who are fighting the "loser leaves town" match. Unfottunately, Nintendo is working overtime on their own destruction, and I'm going to call them on it. They got complacent, and they're paying the price.

 

[Camp]

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[Jeff Kleist]

It doesn't matter how many people gang up on me if you're still wrong

FACT- Acclaim is dropping default Gamecube support. Despite their games being terrible, they sell a lot of units.
FACT- Many retailers are dumping carrying Gamecube or severely reducing their spread.
FACT- Many third parties are ceasing production of original GameBoy titles because they cannot make money on them.
FACT- Gameboy is a signifigant portion of Nintendo's revenue stream
FACT- Very few GameCube titles are actually making money, or selling their expected numbers
FACT- Sony is developing a potentially far superior product that has the potential to severely damage that revenue stream
FACT- Gamecube is in a solid #3 position and the gap is growing
FACT- Gamecube has no online push in the forseeable future, despite it becoming a major part of the current playing field

FACT- All of the above equals trouble for Nintendo. If both their console and handheld streams are severely compromised, they WILL go out of business or be
forced to quit the hardware field.

And what has gotten them there? Their arrogance and refusal to adapt to a changing market. If you look at their history, they have to be dragged kicking and screaming into every new step. They weren't going to launch Super Nintendo until almost 1995 according to the Nintendo shill book Game Over!. But Sega cannibalizing NES sales forced them to jump in far earlier than originally planned. They stuck to their guns on N64. creating a cartridge based system and saw their biggest moneymakers and most loyal developers Capcom, Square and Enix et al jump ship. They don't want to change, and that will be the anvil that breaks the camel's back

Unlike the last 3 of you, I refrain from namecalling and making personal attacks when I don't like someone else's opinion, an opinion that's backed up by confirmable facts.

 

[Scott H]

Damn Jeff, you see a trend with people getting upset with you in all these threads?

 

[Scott H]

Deleted duplicate.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

They stuck to their guns on N64. creating a cartridge based system and saw their biggest moneymakers and most loyal developers Capcom, Square and Enix et al jump ship

Even though Enix made some Japanese games for N64, and Capcom made RE2 and almost made RE0 on N64, and that on the GameCube Square Enix and Capcom are both making BIG titles.

And the main reason Square left was because of the cartridge format's limited space. Even with the PlayStation they still used 4 discs for FF7 (which was originally an N64 game, and it was even running on the N64 before it was moved to the PSX).

 

[David Lee]

FACT- Many retailers are dumping carrying Gamecube or severely reducing their spread.

FACT- Many third parties are ceasing production of original GameBoy titles because they cannot make money on them.

Go ahead and backup those statements.

FACT- Sony is developing a potentially far superior product that has the potential to severely damage that revenue stream.

Based on something that hasn't even been released yet. And how large will the GBA'a installed base be when the PSP arrives. Sony has proven what a head start can do with the PS2. They had a large installed base before GCN and Xbox appeared and that is what wins over third party developers. Sony has also shown that having having superior technology is not as big a factor as people might believe. The Gameboy has always been outgunned in power from Game Gear, TurboExpress, Nomad,etc.

If you look at their history, they have to be dragged kicking and screaming into every new step.

Who made analog controllers a standard. Who made rumble capable controllers standard. Who made 4 controller ports a standard. Who invented the frickin d-pad.

About Cartridges, at the time double speed drives were incredibly slow. CD-Rom drives were also more expensive. Games didn't use high res textures {none of the systems had enough vram anyway]and didn't need the space they need now. Disc based systems ARE superior, but it wasn't as cut and dry back then.

Playing games at a friend's house isn't the same as owning a system. If your friend's watch as you play 20+hours games such as Final Fantasy or Zelda. That's great but I doubt it. If I had played even 5 hours of Eternal Darkness I still wouldn't consider it enough time to judge it because some games get better in later levels.

[About Malata] No I don't. Several good friends do though, again 100+ hours all told viewing its overall quality and capabilities. And outside of some complaints about remotes, I have yet to hear anyone complain about it.

You still haven't lived with it and used it on a daily basis. And if you had heard complaint's from other people, that would have changed your opinion? Even if you had a good experience yourself with it. You could spend a hundred hours watching a television at a friend's house and not know it's true capabilities. Same thing with speakers, I would never recommend a speaker that I haven't owned personally because their characteristics can change and their environment heavily influences sound. And even then I would tell the person to listen for themselves. How many cars are great until they hit 100,000 miles and then crap out. I had listened to Tool for years at a friend's house but never enjoyed it until I owned it myself and listened to it repeatedly. If I had based my opinion on the first, second, or even third time, I still wouldn't appreciate them as much as I do now. I would never review or judge something unless I've had it personally and had given it enough time. You base everything on what you've been told and that is why your opinion carries very little weight in my eyes. You seem like a follower who goes based on what everyone is saying or doing, without forming your own opinion.