A Solution to the Pan&Scan vs. OAR problem? (1 Viewer)

[Jay Taylor]

Steven Page mentioned in another thread something that could solve the conflict between Pan & Scan and OAR fans. It would also eliminate the need to have both P&S and OAR versions on the DVD:

Why can't the studios and player manufacturers come together to develop a single disc that can be based on Widescreen but like someone else pointed out, be an option thru the player to watch the movie in P&S without resorting to taking up the second side of a disc or a separate release?

So the solution is to release all DVDs in their OAR and incorporate a feature to allow optional automatic pan&scan into both the DVD and the DVD player.

Couldn’t this feature be implemented by encoding just one number per frame onto the disc? That number being the location of the start to the P&S image from the widescreen image. For example a “0” would mean that the P&S image was at the far left. A “65535” (1111111111111111 binary) would mean that the P&S image was at the far right.

The implementation of this automatic pan&scan feature on a DVD player seems like a remedy too good to pass up. It would make the DVD manufacturers, the OAR & the P&S crowds happy.

It could be marketed with a better name that wouldn’t irritate most people, such as “AFS” for Automatic Full Screen.

Jay Taylor

 

[Eric Huffstutler]

AaronMK also made a valid comment on the follow statement same forum:

I feel that there should be a way for the studios and pressing houses to create a solution so people won't have to re-purchase a player.
If they can come up with branching and gimmicks like Shrek's Revoice Studio on the same DVD, why can't they come up with a way to menu select what version of the movie you can watch on the "same" disc without sacrificing extras?

 

[Glenn Overholt]

Because they're all a bunch of idiots and probably can't figure out how to work the program to do that?

Glenn

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

1) It simply fills anamorphic material- 2.35:1 movies would still have black bars. It wouldn't work on non-anamorphic discs (which are, thankfully, almost extinct).

The bars on 2.35:1 would be the same size as 1.85:1 bars on 4:3 which is the whole source of complaints in the first place. The above quote that they wouldn't care is silly-- if they didn't care about black bars, we wouldn't be talking about this in the first place.

2) The cropped sides works okay for some stuff- but any image movement within the frame (ie scanning) is horrible. So basically the image is locked into a simple left right crop rather than being able to reframe to best serve the action. If you ask the player to move around in the frame, it is usually unwatchable.

3) It relys greatly on player hardware- which developers are shying away from more and more everyday as it simply leads to problems. Stuff like seamless branching has been on the decline because it relys too much on the players ability to do its job- and the advent of $99 DVD players means that they will have boatloads of returned discs.

4) I spoke with one "industry figure" who basically said he didn't think the average P&S fan could figure out how to manipulate the menus in order to achieve PAN&SCAN on the fly-- and if they can they probably already have their player set to 16x9 and have trhe picture stretched rather than have black bars. I honestly think that's true.

Because they're all a bunch of idiots and probably can't figure out how to work the program to do that?

Are you serious? DO you really think the authoring houses don't know how to flag a disc as pan&scan on the fly? Give me a break.

-Vince

 

[Eric Huffstutler]

Vince,

You may have a point that adding a bit more code to the disc to make a player pan and scan from frrame to frame will make the player work overtime.

But on the other hand, J6P may see the light if they have to continously buy those $80 players!

I am sure there has to be a way to make the player follow code to center a frame without so much overhead on the hardware?

 

[Sean Conklin]

I have a better idea, lets just have ALL releases released in OAR period. And if "Average Consumer" wants the film on DVD he/she has the choice to either buy it or don't buy it!

If this is their only choice, they will come around! And if they don't come around, VHS usually fills the screen!

 

[Glenn Overholt]

I still say that it would be better to do this with the DVD player. Just have it 'grab' the center part of the picture. If you select 4:3, you get 1/3 of the picture, and maybe they'll 'get it' then.

Glenn

 

[Jay Taylor]

From Vince:

1) It simply fills anamorphic material- 2.35:1 movies would still have black bars. It wouldn't work on non-anamorphic discs (which are, thankfully, almost extinct).

The bars on 2.35:1 would be the same size as 1.85:1 bars on 4:3 which is the whole source of complaints in the first place. The above quote that they wouldn't care is silly-- if they didn't care about black bars, we wouldn't be talking about this in the first place.

Great! That makes the plan even better. Not only would all DVDs need to be released in OAR but they would need to be anamorphic as well to make pan&scan on the fly work.

Jay Taylor

 

[Jay Taylor]

Also from Vince:

4) I spoke with one "industry figure" who basically said he didn't think the average P&S fan could figure out how to manipulate the menus in order to achieve PAN&SCAN on the fly-- and if they can they probably already have their player set to 16x9 and have trhe picture stretched rather than have black bars. I honestly think that's true.

So let’s make it real easy for them. Put a large red “Full Screen” button on the front of the DVD player and on the remote so that any idiot could activate the feature.

I think if we have enough people with a “can do” mentality we may get a feature like pan&scan on the fly implemented. The Home Theater Forum has had a definite impact on the quality of DVDs being released today.

We can get this feature implemented if the demand is big enough.

Jay Taylor

 

[Marc Deslauriers]

If J6P really is that stupid, why not just mark "DVD" on VHS cassettes?

 

[Jesse Skeen]

I propose using THX certification on all VHS tapes (as it has been on many titles, though obviously it still does not guarantee perfect quality). Make the THX logo REALLY big on the front cover though, and have something like "THX-VHS: DVD quality that fills your screen! Fully compatible with your existing equipment!" This will make the Joe Sixpacks think they're getting something really cool without buying any new equipment, and most likely they won't be able to tell the difference! Anyone with me on this?

 

[Doug Pyle]

Vince's counter-arguments are painfully convincing. Because unfortunately, studios do want to sell to p&s idiots.

Still, I think this solution would be ideal if the obstacles Vince raised can be resolved.

One obstacle - hardware scanning the P&S image disturbs the image quality - can be resolved by not scanning. Just freeze the image in the least-bad portion of the full image. The hope for this being accepted is hinted at in the other the point Vince made, about the 'no black bars' types not caring about a stretched image:

If they don't care about losing the sides of the image, why "reframe to best serve the action"? The only way to "best serve th action" is not to pan-and-scan!

So, for the no-black-bars mob, just keep the image still whatever least-bad position the shot allows. The 'no black bars' type doesn't care anyway about what image they can't see. Then, if they then complain about missing some important part of the image, they can view it in OAR.

Solved?

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

I still think you're not going to get around the problem of 2.35:1 movies still having black bars.

Don't think I don't agree guys- because I do- but I think we need to see the realities of why these features aren't being used. There has to be good reason because it would save studios a boatload of money, and appease the consumer at the same time. If it's not happening- there are certainly good reasons why!

-Vince

 

[Jason Hughes]

Why can't Joe and Jane six-pack just go a buy a DVD player with the Zoom feature? Sure it degrades the quality, but if they want P&S they don't care about quality. Besides, they will be so tickled pink that by pushing a button they can make those sinful black bars go away, they wont notice the lower quality.

My mother just bought one of those DVDs and, well, like they say ignorance is bliss. She's quite happy now.

 

[Nick_Scott]

__________________________________________________ __

Why can't Joe and Jane six-pack just go a buy a DVD

player with the Zoom feature? Sure it degrades the

quality, but if they want P&S they don't care about

quality. Besides, they will be so tickled pink that

by pushing a button they can make those sinful black

bars go away, they wont notice the lower quality.

__________________________________________________ __

While we are on the topic-

Why can't J6P use the contrast knob instead of making DVDs with excessive EE?

Why can't J6P use the Dynamic Compression on his DVD/TV instead of comprimised DD tracks?

etc...