A Sneak Peek at Zulu and Khartoum

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by haineshisway, Dec 30, 2013.

  1. Keith Cobby

    Keith Cobby Screenwriter

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    I am very satisfied with the UK blu-ray of Zulu and have always assumed that the lack of grain is due to it being from a large format negative.

    I am not sensing from haineshisway's comments introducing this thread that the blu-ray of Khartoum will be quite as good as we are expecting, particularly as this is from a large negative format. It will be interesting to read other reviews when available.
     
  2. Richard V

    Richard V Cinematographer

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    Eye of the beholder, man, eye of the beholder.
     
  3. RolandL

    RolandL Producer

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    I don't how if this is correct but this site says:

    In the CD booklet of the recent re-recording of the music score, it was stated that although the sound effects and dialogue were recorded stereophonically the original music score was recorded in Mono.
     
  4. Reed Grele

    Reed Grele Screenwriter

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    As I already have the U.K. BD of Zulu, it will be interesting to compare the colors and audio quality when the TT edition arrives.

    If I can't live with TT's color, I'll marry the U.K.'s video with TT's audio (assuming it syncs up correctly) and enjoy the best of both.

    This method worked fine with Major Dundee (extended version, but married to Daniele Amfitheatrof's score.) Sacrilege to some, I'm sure. But that was the version I saw first in the early sixties. That's the score that was burned into my memory at a very young age. it's the one I prefer, and I just couldn't get into the new musical score by Christopher Caliendo no matter how many times I listened to it.
     
  5. JoHud

    JoHud Producer

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    Oh, I'm sure there will be differences if this is actually suppose to be a different transfer. However, was this new TT transfer made from the same elements as the UK version or separate?

    Maybe I'm just skeptical because of that big issue caused by The Fury.

    Personally, it wasn't the faces of the people that looked too smooth, but the bare skin of the native Zulus and I'm personally interested in comparing the two once the TT disc arrives. However, I could easily be mistaken given I haven't watched it since that blu-ray came out.

    By the looks of it, I'll end up owning both discs for one reason or another. That much I'm certain.

    Not really worried at all about this or Khartoum as I really don't expect much out of MGM's HD transfers, certainly not anything up to Sony standards or even up to most Fox releases. As far as MGM goes what you get is what you get, for better or worse. And that goes across the board.
     
  6. mark brown

    mark brown Stunt Coordinator

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    why no 5.1 on either of these titles?
     
  7. haineshisway

    haineshisway Producer

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    I merely repeated the credit that's on the screen. I understand what Technirama and VistaVision is, and I understand that when those formats are used there is little grain.
     
  8. haineshisway

    haineshisway Producer

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    That's been the party line forever - but the music is clearly true stereo, so that would seem to put an end to the party line :) Believe me, Nick was surprised when this all came up, and I was equally surprised when I heard it.
     
  9. haineshisway

    haineshisway Producer

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    It IS a different transfer.
     
  10. Twilight Time

    Twilight Time Insider
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  11. Twilight Time

    Twilight Time Insider
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    What surprised Bruce K and I last night when we were comparing the two is how strangely similar they are -- the differences seem to be only that the UK color is more "saturated" and vivid -- the TT one is a little cooler, more pale. As stated in the earlier thread, TT's bears evidence of some minor debris and the occasional white flecks of "minus density" (trademark Robert Harris!)The other, as Bruce mentioned, is the sound. The UK is a muffled mono / "faux" stereo presentation -- TT's is real, and surprisingly separated true stereo -- a revelation.

    As always, it is in the eye of the beholder --

    Happy new year, everyone, and thanks for all your support!

    N.
     
  12. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    Man, now I'm really looking forward to viewing Zulu again. It was almost 50 years ago that I viewed it for the first time at my local theater during the summer of 1964. The film has remain one of my favorite all-time movies.
     
  13. David_B_K

    David_B_K Advanced Member

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    I was gonna pass on re-buying Zulu again, but am intrigued by the more vivid sound.
     
  14. EddieLarkin

    EddieLarkin Supporting Actor

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    After a close inspection of my U.K. disc, I feel confident in saying there is definitely some weird digital stuff going on. I don't know if it's DNR or sharpening or regraining or what, but it doesn't look right to me.

    The faces of the British soldiers look like wax figurines, lacking in fine detail. You can see the shadowing of their facial hair growth, but I'll be damned if I can see any actual stubble. Though I'll acknowledge this might be down to the make up they're wearing, but I've never seen anything similar in films of this era before.

    What I can say for certain is digital though is the grain structure. Or more appropriately, the noise. It's definitely there, but is very fine, so to examine it you need to be up close to the screen. You can tell it isn't film "grain" because it all disappears if you pause the image. Once you resume it appears in select places of the screen, particularly around the white hats the British are wearing. As they move about, so too does the noise swarm and dance around the edges of their hats. Pause it and it simply vanishes. It's minute enough that I don't find it distracting at my usual seating distance from my 50 inch, but I can't imagine bearing it if I was using a projector.

    Of course, the disc still looks "good", the colours are very nice and detail is far greater than I've ever seen on any DVD release. This is certainly no Spartacus, another Super Technirama 70 production. But I have trouble believing it is an accurate, film like rendering of an original early generation element. If the TT disc has real grain, even if it is larger than the noise here, I'll probably be replacing my U.K. disc.

    One side note: how does one tell if a stereo track is "faux mono"? The track on this disc is definitely stereo, insofar that it has two independent directional channels. I don't know enough about how Zulu "should" sound, so what is it about the track that makes it poor?
     
  15. RolandL

    RolandL Producer

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    So does the 2.0 DTS-HD MA convert to Dolby Pro logic - same as the House of Wax Blu-ray 3D disc does on my receiver?
     
  16. EddieLarkin

    EddieLarkin Supporting Actor

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    It's standard Dolby Digital, not DTS-HD MA. It does convert via Pro Logic to use all 5 speakers, yes.
     
  17. RolandL

    RolandL Producer

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    Screen Archives says its DTS-HD MA
     
  18. RolandL

    RolandL Producer

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    The sound on the UK Blu-ray was mono converted to stereo by Chace
     
  19. cineMANIAC

    cineMANIAC Cinematographer
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    Just tried to search for Khartoum on Amazon UK and it didn't turn it except for some old DVDs. Is it a retailer exclusive (the new BD I mean)?
     
  20. haineshisway

    haineshisway Producer

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    All Twilight Time Blu-rays are only available through Screen Archives Entertainment - they also list on amazon in the US but at a higher price - best to buy direct.
     

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