A question regarding Bass level management &DTS Page (1 Viewer)

[LiorM]

I posted this question couple of weeks ago and I didn't get any response, So let's try again ...

As you probably know, in AC3 programs not only the low frequency effect (LFE) can be heard from the sub-woofer, but also the bass of all other channels .
It’s really important to find the right balance between the the ".1" material and the sum of all other five/six channels.
My question is regarding to DTS programs.
While I can hear dramatically the differences when I’m changing the LFE balance in AC3 programs, it doesn’t seems so in DTS .
Did any one has experience the same?
Since I upgrade my receiver to include a DTS decoder(Onkyo Tx-Ds 939) I’m afraid it a situation that occurs only because of that. (The DTS card is not control from the Onkyo main processor) .
The logical behind the “Bass level management” says that it suppose to be the same for AC3 and DTS .
What do you think?

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

Do you have a single LFE pad control or do you have one each for DD and DTS? Understand that there should be 2 separate bass related controls in your receiver: the Sub setting in the speaker outputs which controls the overall level of the sub (affecting both the LFE and rerouted bass), and a LFE pad control (which only regulates the level of bass on the dedicated LFE track).

The idea of "blending" the LFE with rerouted bass should almost be a non-issue- in 99.9% of cases, the correct setting for the LFE control is all the way up. I have posted a 40hz sine wave test elsewhere on the forum which would give you an exact measure of your LFE vs rerouted bass from other channels.

The proper position for LFE on DD and DTS should actually be the "same" (well, meaning they should both be all the way up for calibrated proper playback) . Both formats require a 10db boost in playback- so in both cases the LFE pad should be placed in whatever position it needs to be in order to achieve this boost.

Recently, a few people posted their results using the 40hz wav tone I posted here on the forum, and the LFE was within 1db or so of the rerouted bass on ever processor tested (with the LFE control all the way up). I personally wish they would simply do away with the control, as it tends to offer more confusion to the average person than help.

IN your case if the DTS decoder is an outboard processor supplying signal (I assume) to the 6 channel input on the receiver- the LFE control for DTS (if there is one) will be in the outboard processor, not the receiver.

-V

 

[LiorM]

Hello Vince !

Thank you for your response.
As I mentioned before, the DTS card was an upgrade. The Onkyo 939 came only with a DD decoder.As I understand the DTS card is bypassing the Onkyo processor and do all the DTS decoding by it self routing the signal into the Onkyo preamp.
So none DTS features are available from the Onkyo OSD.
There is central menu and it supposes to effect all the surround modes.
The entire features works fine for DTS,(speaker calibration,DSP modes etc`)
But the LFE calibration which gives you the ability to decide what amount of data will be route from the other 5 channels to the subwoofer does not seem to be effective.
(Works fine with DD)
I do however,have the ability to change the subwoofer level from the speaker calibration menu.
I don’t agree with your assumption that blending the LFE With other channels is non-issue,since DVD titles has no reference level on them so we don’t know what was the reference Between the LFE channel and the other channels in the mixing room. You probably understand that
There are thousands of mixing rooms and every one of them has s different equipment install in it with different calibration.We also don’t know what was the listening level in the mixing room.
The higher level you have the better frequency response you get.
But here is the thing,too much level in the mixing room or seating too close to the speakers in the mixing room may lead eventually to a mix lack of high frequency … seating too far or mixing in low level reference may lead to the opposite results.(a mix full with low frequencies and high frequencies and lack of mid frequencies …
You should also take under consideration the X/over point in the mixing room.(60,80,100,120) ???
There is a lot of data that we are missing …
I found the Bass level management feature very effective in some titles that are lack of low frequency (most of them are old).
Some of the titles to my opinion has more then enough low frequency so the balance in my setup need to be change as necessary.
I do understand that eventually, bringing DVD title from BB and watch it need to be a simple thing ... but is it ?
I will appreciate your comment

Thanks
Lior

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

See, I personally don't take the approach of trying to "fix" soundtracks so they all sound the same on my system. Much the same way as I have no desire to pump up the bass on my car stereo to make the Velvet Underground sound like Ice Cube. I also don't fiddle with my rear channels if one disc seems to not be as active in the surrounds as I think it should...

And again- even if you find the necessity to crank the bass on older recordings which simply did not mix so bass heavy- I'm still figuring the overall bass level would be far more effective method, rather than adjusting the LFE vs Rerouted Bass (which, btw, the LFE setting at max is the "correct" setting on most processors- so the best you can do is reduce the level of LFE, and then re-compensate by pumping the sub speaker output).

Again- not every soundtrack will sound the same on the system- and while I won't fault anyone for seasoning to taste, I simply don't find it necessary to try to turn the Wizard of Oz into Saving Private Ryan. Different tracks, different eras, different results.

-Vince

 

[LiorM]

See, I personally don't take the approach of trying to "fix" soundtracks so they all sound the same on my system...

Agree 100% !!!
That was not my intention, All I want is to achieve a balanced "picture" to most of the movies I see.

cheers ...

 

[LiorM]

Vince ?