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A new MANHUNTER disc is coming July 8! (MERGED THREAD) (1 Viewer)

Mark_Wilson

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I just watched this the other night. Its one of my favorite movies. The PQ is AWESOME. Very 3D like and not even a hint of EE. The inserted scenes aren't as bad as I thought they would be. I have the old 2 disc AB version and this is way better. You can notice when they transition to the inserted footage but it isn't jarring at all. I still wish we'd see the original Theatrical cut though. I'd rebuy, again, the Original Theatrical cut if they do the DIVIMAX voodoo on it. Gorgeous!


FYI, I watched this on my ISF cal'd 55" Mits HDTV fed by a Panasonic XP50.
 

Mark_Wilson

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Does it have the famous line "I'll blow his ******* socks off!" restored?
Is this the line where he was leaning against the table talking to the cops about Hannibal Lecktor?

There was a line, that I really liked, during that scene in the original theatrical. I can't remember what he said but I remember thinking it was still missing.
 

Mark E J

Second Unit
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Does it have the famous line "I'll blow his ******* socks off!" restored?
No, unfortunately it is not. It also still has the strange removal of profanity when Graham throws Lounds against the car. But since this version was created and approved by Mann himself I can accept this.

The good news is that the missing dialoge when Graham talks to the Atlanta PD is present as is the scene in the halway where Graham discusses why he feels the killer took of his gloves. Plus the framing is correct in this version, no more cut off heads and you can see Graham running toward the window at the end.

On the whole I'm very happy with this release definately worth the $15. I don't really think of this as "double dipping" in the traditional sense because I still don't feel the original release was legitimate.

ABE has been dishonest with the public from the beginning, this "new" cut is simply the same transfer as the THX "theatrical cut" they released before with the extra footage spliced in. There is no reason this version could not have been released with the original set.

Still all in all I very happy to have a the best version possible of Mann's approved cut of Manhunter.

One intertesting thing I noticed though: the scene where Graham talks to Chilton before he sees Lecktor has been removed.
 

Damin J Toell

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ABE has been dishonest with the public from the beginning, this "new" cut is simply the same transfer as the THX "theatrical cut" they released before with the extra footage spliced in. There is no reason this version could not have been released with the original set.
There is, in fact, a reason why this version could not have been released with the original set: it didn't exist, as Michael Mann was unwilling to take part in creating it. Mann originally only agreed to do it, with a commentary, on the condition that his director's cut be the only cut released. AB balked at this, as they wanted to release the theatrical cut, as well (or, at least, what they were supplied with that claimed to be the theatrical cut, anyway). For the director's cut version, AB tried their best (though clearly that's never enough for many), to make a widescreen version on their own out of the tape they were supplied with. Now, Mann has finally done the work necessary to create his cut, and AB has released it.

AB is not being dishonest about this, and this is not simply the older transfer with the extra footage spliced in. The new DVD is, in fact, sourced from a completely new high definition transfer (the previous theatrical cut transfer was done in standard definition). Mann made changes when overseeing this new transfer, including personally changing the colors in much of the film. AB couldn't release this before, because it didn't exist before.

DJ
 

Mark E J

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Well I don't know where you got this info but if it came from ABE it is highly suspect. They changed there story about the origin of the original set several times.

After I complained to ABE I got an e-mail stateing the the movie on the first disk WAS the theatrical cut and suggested that what I wanted was some alternate cut floating around out there. They also suggested that Mann was involved with the creation of the DC on disk 2 and compeletely supported the release of the theatrical cut.

Then they started to leak unofficial information to meassage boards and websites about how the cuts and additions made to the "theatrical cut" were made by Mann himself. Infact I got chewed out on this very messageboard based on information people got from ABE insiders that claimed that Mann made the changes to the TC on disk 1 himself. So I was told to blame Michael Mann not ABE for the first disc.

Then the next story was that they had found the orininal interpositive in Europe but company who owned the rights to this backed out at the last minute so ABE was forced to release the DC that Mann had in his personal collection which was in such bad condition it was beyond repair.

Next came the story similar to the one you just relayed:
Mann was going to participate with the release provided that the DC was the only one released. ABE felt that the condition of the DC was so bad that they couldn't release it. But they had gotten a interpositive of the theatrical cut that they saw had some additional footage (but did not know it was missing some) so they decided to release that expanded TC with the original poor quality DC as a supplement. Mann didn't like this so he walked off the project without recording a commentary. This is a direct contradiction to ABE's original e-mail and press release about the original set.

Damin you might be right be right in everything you said. Infact upon second glance I noticed the new DC does have several color diffrences from the THX transfer. But I stand by my comment that ABE was dishonest with the public. In addition to changeing their stories, they never told the public that the DC was from sub-par materials. On the current release they explain that some footage is from poor quality sources, but no such warning on the first release. Also by their own admission they knew prior to release that the TC had new footage, yet they did not share this info with customers. Then tried to cover it up after the fact with doublespeak.

I also disagree that ABE "did their best" with the original presentation of the DC. I never griped the quality of the picture on the DC once I found out the original sources were lost and that the only version avalible was Mann's own video master. I understand the grain and low resolution could not be helped. But the frameing was horrible. That was not the poor source material it was poor quality control. It was if they just took a pan-scan transfer slapped black bars on the top and bottom and called it widescreen.

If you don't believe me simply compare any avalible version of Manhunter to the original DC, paticularly in the films climax where Graham jumps through a window. In all previous versions you can see Graham advanceing toward the window from a distance, then finally jumping through it. In the old DC all you see is an extended shot of an empty window until a second before Graham hit it. I can see no reason to release such a bad product without warning the public then have thye balls to charge you extra as well.
 

Mark Cappelletty

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I love Manhunter and, having worked for Mann directly, I know what Damin says about the damaged 1" tape master for the original Director's Cut is true.

I also am frustrated with the various permutations of this film-- particularly after I had to go back and re-buy the movie on LD (after I'd sold my own copy) to get the genuine "theatrical" cut. So I'm holding off on this for the time being.
 

Damin J Toell

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Mark E J:
I also am frustrated with the various permutations of this film-- particularly after I had to go back and re-buy the movie on LD (after I'd sold my own copy) to get the genuine "theatrical" cut. So I'm holding off on this for the time being.
MGM, who did the original HD transfer that Mann used to create this new director's cut, is apparently releasing thier unaltered transfer of the theatrical version on DVD in parts of Europe (e.g., France and Sweden). See this unverified review of the French disc. There may be hope yet for a superior alternative to the LD.

DJ
 

Lyle_JP

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The picture is noticeably improved here from the previous "Theatrical Cut" DVD, but don't throw the old one away yet! The 2.0 sound mix on this Director's Cut DVD is lifeless compared to the 5.1 mix on the TC DVD, and the extras from that disc weren't ported over.

-Lyle J.P.
 

Michael Reuben

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No, unfortunately it is not.
That line, and the entire speech that surrounds it, is also not part of Mann's script, which is included with the DVD. In the theatrical cut, it was inserted into the scene between Crawford and Graham, just before Graham figures out that the killer has seen the home movies. AFAIK, Mann has left the speech out of every version that he's subsequently prepared.

This may be a minority view, but I think the scene plays better without it.

M.
 

Mark_Wilson

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I just got the R2F MGM version of Manhunter. It does have the profanity when Will throws the reporter on the hood of the car. I can't find the famous 'sox' line. I didn't watch the entire movie though. I did watch through the all the home movies scenes I think and didn't see it. Can someone describe in more detail where it should be?
 

Michael Reuben

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Can someone describe in more detail where it should be?
I thought my earlier description was sufficiently specific, but here's more detail. There's a lengthy scene in the last half hour of the film between Graham and Crawford. It opens with Graham seated and staring at a television monitor and Crawford standing at the back of the room. In the course of the scene, Graham talks about the "bloom" on the women, spots a padlock on the garage door in one of the homes, concludes that's why the Tooth Fairy brought a bolt cutter, and suddenly realizes that the Tooth Fairy has seen the home movies, and has Crawford call down to the property room to check on where the films were developed.

In the original theatrical cut, near the very beginning of that scene, there's a reverse shot of Graham turning to Crawford, while the home movies continue to play on the video monitor behind him. Graham says, "This started from an abused kid," and continues on from there. This portion of the scene is not in Mann's new director's cut, and it's not on the previous Anchor Bay version labeled the "theatrical cut". It is on the old laserdisc.

The editing is very choppy on this insert; the cuts to Crawford's reaction don't quite match up with Graham's speech. And the speech (which, as I pointed out, isn't in Mann's script) interrupts the dramatic momentum of the scene, which is Graham figuring out how the Tooth Fairy chose his victims. The dialogue even sounds different, almost like an improv.

M.
 

Mark_Wilson

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You did describe it well before, I just thought I may have missed something. I assumed it was After he figured out the tootfairy had seen the movies but it was actually Before it.


Yes the line is there! Its at the 1hr 30min mark. There is a chapter stop just before it (13?). "It starts with a battered infant..."

The PQ is very good. Not quite as good as the DIVIMAX release but still very good. The 5.1 is seemed more immersive in the scenes I watched. I'll go back and watch the end and see how that sounds.
 

Michael Reuben

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Sounds like the theatrical cut. Does the R2 also have the scene after the raid on the Tooth Fairy's home where Graham goes to visit the family that would have been the third set of victims? This was not in the theatrical cut (or the LD), but it is on the new director's cut.

M.
 

Sean Patrick

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ok...my thread got merged with this one.

all i wanted were answers, i'm getting none from this thread.


thanks moderator!
 

Sean Patrick

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PS - i agree with one of the above posters - the new HD-derived transfer is so good that the D.C. footage is VERY distracting. that's why when you see scenes you've seen on previous dvd versions that looks better, it's even more distracting. i can only imagine how much worse it was on the previous dvd.

this movie is a DVD joke. i'm seeing the best PQ i've ever seen on dvd, and one of my favorite movies presented as a "director's cut" when those of us with old showtime VHS copies are seeing that this is not the "director's version". i think mann hasn't quite realized what's missing from his film.
 

Damin J Toell

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just finished watching the new Manhunter Director's Cut DVD. hadn't seen any discussion here so i thought i'd post some thoughts :

1) from the opening scene i saw a BIG improvement in picture quality of the "regular" scenes overall. The opening scene on the beach looked sharp and near-HD, as did *most* of the rest of the dvd.

2) still some lines of dialogue missing, totally inexcusable.

3) strange observation about some of the Director's Cut footage. There are obviously dozens of shots that were taken from the video master that have been on the previous DVD's IN PRISTINE FORM!!!!!

4) if the PQ of the Director's Cut footage looks better here than the previous D.C., i can't imagine even being able to watch that dvd even out of curiousity.

-sean
 

Sean Patrick

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damin -

you're hardcore!!

i assumed we were all fans of this film, wanting the best possible presentation of it.

i'm so sorry i said i raised "questions", i guess i should have used the word "issue" instead of "question".

i can't believe i was quoted and challenged over this.

i guess there are worse things to argue about, huh?
 

Mark Cappelletty

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Don't get Damin started on legal wording-- we'll be here all week! ;)

It's too bad about this disc, which should have been a no-brainer. Oh well, more money to spend on MGM's horror films later in the month...
 

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