A few words about....Blu-Ray (1 Viewer)

[Tony Kwong]

quote:16/35/70mm versions. DD vs DTS versions.

Hardly any theaters can play 16/70mm anymore, It's a shame. Alot of 35mm prints have both AC-3 and DTS on them, so that is not a huge issue. Some even have SDDS with that as well. You just have to switch sound readers from the CD player or the processor.

I watch way too many non studio movies in film fest every year that never gets released on any home video format anywhere. So I have to find the creator get a copy. So for me, hopefully the movies wont die!

Oh well, heck, I've seen a lot of them over the years just get remade by the big studios!

 

[Dan Hitchman]

The big Blu-Ray discussion is on over at the AVS Forum with a few "pop ins" by Richard E. Doherty (Managing Director for Blu-ray at the Panasonic Hollywood Labs) and John Kotches of W.S.R.



Very lively debates and eye opening discoveries!

I kind of doubt what you saw at this particular screening was the latest and greatest Blu-Ray technology (unless Sony has updated to their newer protype players with new A/V codecs; although I'm sure it looked great), rather what they've been showing previously at trade shows. 1080i using MPEG-2 and Dolby Digital lossy audio. The Lawrence of Arabia clip is from the older HD transfer that Mr. Harris had to fall back on for the Superbit DVD. It still contains some edge enhancement that is not necessary.



Mr. Doherty (and various slides from the newest events) has been talking up the ability to do at least the newest MPEG-4 AVC High Profile video codec at 1920x1080p/24 and 1920x1080p/30 with 16 Megabits/sec or greater VBR that can visually match a D-5 master tape (that spec. right there hands down beats the pants off a filtered 1080i D-VHS tape)... and either 6 channels of uncompressed LPCM at 24/192 resolution or 8 channels of uncompressed LPCM at 24/96. ~27 Megabits/sec would be alloted for just audio. That would seem to point towards a total bitrate of 54 or even 72 Megabits/sec.



Mr. Doherty was also expousing the virtues of DTS++ as a possible lossless codec to be included, but I (and a few others in the discussion) are leary of using only one DTS++ track to carry both backwards and forwards compatible audio (the structure seems too much like DTS-ES's or DTS 96/24's "core + extension" design of Coherent Acoustics with lossy compression and some channel matrixing involved). There is too much room not to do either fully discrete, uncompressed LPCM and quality HD video, or fully discrete MLP Lossless with HD video if space is needed (MLP has many advantages as a lossless codec, and is a proven performer already in the market with licensing already in place in many circles).



We need to get this to be the very best high resolution A/V delivery system possible! Let your voices be heard!

 

[RayD]

I seriously can't wait for Blu Ray movies. I don't know what's better, the improved video quality and resolution or the prospect of losless audio in LPCM and DTS.



Too bad my Toshiba HDTV can't output 1080P. I made sure it had DVI for the future though.

 

[Ricardo C]

I can't wait, either. The type of excitement I'm feeling right now is similar to what I felt when the first 32-bit gaming consoles brought us into an era in which arcade conversions were practically identical to the original game. No more compromises in terms of PQ and gameplay. You could go to the arcade and play Tekken 2 and rest assured that the home version would look just as incredible.



If all goes well, in a couple years (hopefully sooner!) we'll be able to go see a movie in the theater, and rest assured that when we purchase the home video version we'll have the same visual quality, or more (yes yes, film has much more theoretical resolution than 2k, but the average filmgoer never gets to see such pristine prints.)



I've always wanted a gigantic screen for my HT. I'm talking 15-20 feet wide here. I have the space for it, but upconverted DVD doesn't seem like enough to justify it. That may be all about to change

 

[Joe Karlosi]

quote:Only if you want to do so. Personally, with 2600 dvds in my collection, I will be very selective on what I purchase again with this new format. Lawrence of Arabia is a given while Peggy Sue Got Married is not.

If you really think about it, this is usually the first claim whenever a new technology is announced. It happened with Vinyl to CD and then VHS and LD to DVD .... everyone says "I won't upgrade my entire record/CD/LD collection. I've got (fill in the blank) many discs already". Usually, we all "upgrade" everything, though.

I kind of side with you at the same time here, though -- and I "hope" I can resist the temptation this time to re-purchase everything myself. I'm not as young as I used to be and now have more financial obligations. So "maybe" this time I'll stick to my guns. New technology is always a wonderful thing; but upgrading every 10 years or so is not. What's next - "brown ray" or "rainbow ray"? Sigh.....

 

[Joe Karlosi]

quote:A few comments from the "old guy"

While Robert Crawford says that he will replace very few of his 2600 DVDs with HD versions I'm sensing a little "deja vu all over again" (to quote Yogi the Bard). I made the same statement regarding my 2000 LDs in 1997



Those of us who were around at the beginning of the HTF in 1997 (and who were with us on other boards before the web took off) recall that Ron Epstein and I initially took the position that LDs would probably be good enough for us for some time to come.

I didn't see that someone had kind of said what I wanted to already, Robert.

 

[Robert Crawford]

quote:If you really think about it, this is usually the first claim whenever a new technology is announced. It happened with Vinyl to CD and then VHS and LD to DVD .... everyone says "I won't upgrade my entire record/CD/LD collection. I've got (fill in the blank) many discs already". Usually, we all "upgrade" everything, though.

Not for me, this is the first for me because my course of action regarding those other formats was to replace everything in my collection. This is the first time that I'm not planning to do such an extensive replacement. My retirement years are fast approaching so different priorities are in this latest equation.



Crawdaddy

 

[Mike Voigt]

quote:Those of us who were around at the beginning of the HTF in 1997 (and who were with us on other boards before the web took off) recall that Ron Epstein and I initially took the position that LDs would probably be good enough for us for some time to come. That turned out to be months rather than years as we dug down and purchased our first SONY 7000 DVD players (which in my case is still going strong, albeit without DTS).

Too funny, 1997 was an interesting year. My 7000 from then is still running strong. Still has the region code switches, too...



I haven't yet gone the route of front projection - funny what two almost back-to-back moves for new jobs and having a baby will do to hobbies - but something like this (and HD when it is finally widely available WITH decent content; I like not the vast majority of TV programming, I don't even run cable or sat these days 'cause it is just not worth it) will bring that day closer... for sure.



As far as use of the bandwidth is concerned - make all channels LPCM or better. With this, there is no need for any lossy compression methods. So let's just dispense with them.

 

[PerryD]

Now that I can time-shift High Def with my new DVR cable box, I find that my DVD purchases are a fraction of what they were, down to a few TV box sets and the really big movies that I want. I always have a dozen movies ready to watch in high def.



With Blu-Ray, I'm not even going to kid myself about buying one of the first units. Luckily, being an early adopter will mean I'll be able to unload my DVDs at a reasonable price as the Blu-Ray versions come out. There was never a large secondary market for laserdisc, so I was stuck with hundreds of duplicate movies. I don't forsee that happening in the transition to high-def since there will always be 10's of millions of people and local stores to sell off old DVDs.

 

[Neil_Duffy]

I haven't really been following this thread properly, but can someone tell me would I need to buy a new TV for Blu-ray to work... I currently have a 36' WS set, and Ia m fascinated my blu-ray but I will be less then impressed if I have to buy a new set to watch blu-ray movies.

 

[David Forbes]

Neil,



It will all depend on what inputs you have on the set and what outputs end up on Blu-Ray players. More than likely encrypted HDMI will be the primary connection. None of that is certain at this point.

 

[ScottCor]

This will not slow down my DVD buying habits(at least ones I really want), as with the switch from VHS to DVD, some titles won't make the switch. There are many titles I love that still haven't made it to DVD and may never. It will be the same with Blu-Ray, many titles won't be converted. So at least I'll have them in some form.

But this does have me rethinking TV sets, if they can put a whole season on one disc...then maybe I'll hold off buying many TV releases until the technology takes hold. Wonder what they would charge though if they could fit it on one disc?..how cool would it be to have a box set of a whole series run with one disc for each season.

 

[Vader]

quote:More than likely, you'll need at least a DVI connection. There's no way the studios are going to let a video feed through a non-copy protected interface (component).

OK, then... will the blu ray players downconvert HD discs to SD (for those of use that do not have DVI inputs, nor the $ to upgrade at this time? My Mitsu is only a year old...). I do not intend to jump on the HD bandwagon until at least 2 generations anyway (while they "perfect" their encoding). I still remember the first and second generation DVDs, and how they blew me away then. As compression techniques improved (and progressive scan players were introduced), these first generation pressings looked increasingly bad compared to later repressings (aka. "Jumanji", and soon "Batman").



Thanx!

 

[CraigL]

quote:how cool would it be to have a box set of a whole series run with one disc for each season.

Think of the space we'll save

 

[StephenP]

Blu-ray is also supposed to be a recordable format from the very beginning. Did the presentation go into this aspect at all? Also, why do people assume it will be a couple of years before we are watching blu-ray movies when the players are already available for purchase in Japan? (yes I know the format specs are still under discussion, but players are out there none the less)



I personally will only be buying the LOTR series, the star wars ultimate 2006 edition, and maybe a couple other releases which have poor compression (Kill Bill etc) as double dips, but all new movies will be blu-ray purchases. The previously stated 10% price difference I don't buy though, I bet they will be 24.99-ish release week specials drifting up to 34.99-39.99 standard catalogue prices, at least for the first year or so.

 

[Alistair_M]

According to this link:



Warners, 20th Century Fox and Disney are lining up with HD-DVD



Personally I've some doubts about whether this article is accurate. So take it with a pinch of salt until we have some more info



http://www.tekrati.com/T2/Analyst_Re...sp?Newsid=3734



Quote:



"Sony's recently announced purchase of MGM — including over 9,000 movies in the MGM catalog — has refocused attention on content ownership in the struggle for the next generation DVD market. The rival HD-DVD group can already claim Warner Video, 20th Century Fox, and Disney among its content providers.



The two camps each aim to become the de facto standard for the high-capacity DVDs of the near future."

Is this article correct? I thought the other studios were still sitting on the fence...

 

[CraigL]

What's the chance someone will come up with a player to play both? Does that not happen?

 

[Mark_vdH]

quote:If you really think about it, this is usually the first claim whenever a new technology is announced. It happened with Vinyl to CD and then VHS and LD to DVD .... everyone says "I won't upgrade my entire record/CD/LD collection. I've got (fill in the blank) many discs already". Usually, we all "upgrade" everything, though.

After CD, better audio formats were also introduced, but not very many people upgraded all of their discs then.



To most people, CD audio is already close enough to the real thing, they don't (or barely) hear the difference. Remember, CD's have been around for more than 20 years now.



I suspect the same may apply to this situation: most people with not too large screens already see a dvd movie as a (close to) perfect reproduction of a real movie. No doubt, plenty of large screen owners will throw their dvd's out in a couple of years. However, the mass market-ability (everyone can spot the difference!) of dvd lies at the core of its succes, and so I sincerely doubt if dvd will fade away as soon as VHS and LD did after the introduction of dvd.

 

[Todd Terwilliger]

Alistair,

I would definitely take it with a generous helping of salt. At all the studios we visited, this was always a question and the universal response was that they were all going to wait for one of the formats to become the standard. Each studio expressed exactly zero interest in getting involved in the format war.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

quote:

Personally I've some doubts about whether this article is accurate. So take it with a pinch of salt until we have some more info

I spoke with Fox directly while out in LA
last week and I was told that there is no
decision pending at the moment.