A Few Words About A few words about...™ Vertigo -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Dr Griffin]

I recently picked up the Special Edition Two Disc DVD, and have thoroughly enjoyed it. The image is one of those better efforts of the DVD format. I also enjoyed the restoration doc, which was not encluded with the Blu-ray. I'll pick up the BD eventually.

 

[Johnny Angell]

Many potentially passionate and forward-thinking future archivists, especially women, drop out of the program, once they realize that they'll be required to shave their heads.Pity.RAH

Hey, I qualify and without shaving.

 

[alago197]

Appears to be a hair in the gate of the optical printer c. 1957-58.

RAH

thanks..

 

[davidmatychuk]

Appears to be a hair in the gate of the optical printer c. 1957-58. RAH

Well, the archivist hair has to go somewhere.

 

[YanMan]

I was finally able to view the single-disc Blu-Ray of Vertigo. While I was blown away by the detail revealed by this transfer and mostly pleased with the image (except that final 10 minutes or so), I do lament that this, the AFI's current greatest American film, was not restored to "frame perfect", as Robert Harris suggests would have been possible.

I do have a question for Robert Harris that I do not believe has been addressed in this thread (please excuse me if it has already been answered, as it has been a while since I read through all this)...

Mr. Harris,

In your opinion, if Universal had simply done a 4k scan of the preservation elements you created from your 1996 restoration, would that have resulted in a better, more consistent image for release on Blu-Ray than the new digital restoration that Universal performed?

 

[Robert Harris]

I was finally able to view the single-disc Blu-Ray of Vertigo. While I was blown away by the detail revealed by this transfer and mostly pleased with the image (except that final 10 minutes or so), I do lament that this, the AFI's current greatest American film, was not restored to "frame perfect", as Robert Harris suggests would have been possible.

I do have a question for Robert Harris that I do not believe has been addressed in this thread (please excuse me if it has already been answered, as it has been a while since I read through all this)...

Mr. Harris,

In your opinion, if Universal had simply done a 4k scan of the preservation elements you created from your 1996 restoration, would that have resulted in a better, more consistent image for release on Blu-Ray than the new digital restoration that Universal performed?

No.

Universal created a quite beautiful transfer, short of attending to the more problematic areas of the failing Y dye layer.

With small exceptions, their work is exemplary.

RAH

 

[Mikey1969]

Agreed, although I'd put Paramount's To Catch A Thief (slightly) above it. It certainly puts Universal's The Man Who Knew Too Much, Marnie and Family Plot to shame.

Matt Hough, on 14 Sept 2014 - 3:57 PM, said:
It's another VistaVision wonder, and your jaw should suitably drop while viewing. I think it's the best looking of ALL the transfers done of Hitchcock films thus far.

 

[Mikey1969]

The Harrison Engle doc is on the blu-ray. It's slightly jarring though to see the work being done on the 1996 restoration in the doc, while that version of the film was not used as the basis for the blu-ray. Perhaps that's why the commentary was dropped for the much lesser one by William Friedkin. I've recently picked up this DVD version just for the original commentary track.

Dr Griffin, on 14 Sept 2014 - 4:24 PM, said:
I recently picked up the Special Edition Two Disc DVD, and have thoroughly enjoyed it. The image is one of those better efforts of the DVD format. I also enjoyed the restoration doc, which was not encluded with the Blu-ray. I'll pick up the BD eventually.

 

[Mikey1969]

Robert: How well protected is Vertigo now? I understand that you've made preservation elements back in 1996 restoration to protect the film into the future, but what will Universal face several years from now when they need to do a new 4K Scan for Ultra HD, or for theatrical re-release?

Or did I miss it, and was there a 4K remaster for the blu-ray?

Thanks. Have always loved the film since I saw a washed-out and cropped VHS copy years ago at the young age of 15.

Robert Harris, on 02 Dec 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:
No.

Universal created a quite beautiful transfer, short of attending to the more problematic areas of the failing Y dye layer.

With small exceptions, their work is exemplary.

RAH

 

[OliverK]

There is a 4k DCP available for Vertigo which is already used for theatrical screenings. No problem to also have a UHD version, it is just a question of the release format.

 

[Nelson Au]

I thought of bringing up the Bernard Herrmann soundtrack if you will indulge me. For the past 8 days, I've been listening to the soundtrack album in the car on my long commute to work. It's the 1996 Varese Sarabande restored soundtrack made from the tracks that Mr. Harris found in 1994 at Paramount and saved at the time of the analogue film restoration of Vertigo. I've been enjoying this CD a lot. But the source is not perfect and Mr. Harris kindly responded to a post I made some time ago about the degradation of the tapes from vinegar syndrome and that this was the best it was going to get.

I also have the 1995 re-recording of the soundtrack by Joel McNeely and the Royal Scottish National Orchestra. At first I wasn't very partial to this recording, it's not that it's a bad effort. This past week, I rotated between the original and the McNeely effort. I think the main area that the McNeely effort pales is the harp work during the signature cue whenever Scotty feels vertigo coming on when he looks down the alley while hanging on the gutter on the roof and later uses of that cue. It's just not the same. Plus there's some subtle work that's not so subtle in the re-recording. So I mainly was just looping the original score over and over all week! The McNeely work is actually better then I thought most of the time though. So it's serviceable.

"One final thing I have to do, and then I'll be rid of the past...."

To culminate this obsession with the Herrmann score, I watched the Vertigo blu ray again last night. I know the faults of the opening and closing scenes. I don't focus on that and just enjoy the story. But I was more attuned to the score.

It's still really bugs me that we cannot get a better CD of the score because it sounded so good on the blu ray. The scene as Scotty and Judy walk past The Palace of Fine Arts in the Marina district, there are some audio drop outs on the 1996 CD, but it sounds fine on the blu ray. Same with other areas where the audio drops a bit such as in the main titles. There's also several short cues not on the CD of course, some are well documented. I noticed them this time around.

So at the end of the blu ray, I had forgotten of the credit to Robert Harris and James Katz for the stereo mix of the audio used in the blu ray. That made me wonder, is there a new separate audio track for the Herrmann score in existence that a new sound track CD could be struck from? I have a feeling the answer is no, or that there isn't enough of a market to justify the cost. Though La La Land, Intrada and the similar houses seems to do very well making film scores available to a soundtrackphile market!

I didn't plan to watch the entire Vertigo last night, but the film really works and I just didn't stop till it was over. Knowing the music a little better now also had me more in tune with the scenes the music is attached to.

I really wish there was a way to get a complete and clean recording of the original Herrmann score. A 24/192 version would be cool too. The current version is certainly not bad and is a terrific release.

 

[Robert Harris]

You can thank your lucky stars that Sir Alfred had heard the tracks from The Artist, and knew enough to re-use them...


RAH

 

[alago197]

I thought of bringing up the Bernard Herrmann soundtrack if you will indulge me. For the past 8 days, I've been listening to the soundtrack album in the car on my long commute to work. It's the 1996 Varese Sarabande restored soundtrack made from the tracks that Mr. Harris found in 1994 at Paramount and saved at the time of the analogue film restoration of Vertigo. I've been enjoying this CD a lot. But the source is not perfect and Mr. Harris kindly responded to a post I made some time ago about the degradation of the tapes from vinegar syndrome and that this was the best it was going to get.

I also have the 1995 re-recording of the soundtrack by Joel McNeely and the Royal Scottish National Orchestra. At first I wasn't very partial to this recording, it's not that it's a bad effort. This past week, I rotated between the original and the McNeely effort. I think the main area that the McNeely effort pales is the harp work during the signature cue whenever Scotty feels vertigo coming on when he looks down the alley while hanging on the gutter on the roof and later uses of that cue. It's just not the same. Plus there's some subtle work that's not so subtle in the re-recording. So I mainly was just looping the original score over and over all week! The McNeely work is actually better then I thought most of the time though. So it's serviceable.

"One final thing I have to do, and then I'll be rid of the past...."

To culminate this obsession with the Herrmann score, I watched the Vertigo blu ray again last night. I know the faults of the opening and closing scenes. I don't focus on that and just enjoy the story. But I was more attuned to the score.

It's still really bugs me that we cannot get a better CD of the score because it sounded so good on the blu ray. The scene as Scotty and Judy walk past The Palace of Fine Arts in the Marina district, there are some audio drop outs on the 1996 CD, but it sounds fine on the blu ray. Same with other areas where the audio drops a bit such as in the main titles. There's also several short cues not on the CD of course, some are well documented. I noticed them this time around.

So at the end of the blu ray, I had forgotten of the credit to Robert Harris and James Katz for the stereo mix of the audio used in the blu ray. That made me wonder, is there a new separate audio track for the Herrmann score in existence that a new sound track CD could be struck from? I have a feeling the answer is no, or that there isn't enough of a market to justify the cost. Though La La Land, Intrada and the similar houses seems to do very well making film scores available to a soundtrackphile market!

I didn't plan to watch the entire Vertigo last night, but the film really works and I just didn't stop till it was over. Knowing the music a little better now also had me more in tune with the scenes the music is attached to.

I really wish there was a way to get a complete and clean recording of the original Herrmann score. A 24/192 version would be cool too. The current version is certainly not bad and is a terrific release.

Ther's also the 1999 high quality Conlon recording directing the Paris Opera Orchestra. All the 42 cues as they appear in the movie. I found them from the playlist of user Blumbebert (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLueXmE7SrlIT_GvXzDSTJ4HAwd0nyA2iB) .

 

[Charles Smith]

I thrill to original soundtrack recordings, even when in less than optimal condition, and Vertigo is one of the all time greatest.


Re-recordings are great for further study and enjoyment of a film score, but for my taste, few of them actually satisfy. Maybe I haven't listened to enough of them, but I find they tend to be recorded with way too much reverb and seemingly at too great a distance (it's like they're recording from the balcony), and with way too little of the drive and impact of the original. I listened to McNeely's Psycho, and though the orchestra plays it expertly, I was mentally fighting it all the way.


Herrmann's own re-recordings suffered from this to greater and lesser degrees. He would never quite achieve the original intensity of a score, largely because the tempos were lethargic in comparison to the originals, so even though they were glorious to listen to, some of those London or Phase 4 or Unicorn LPs lacked the original drama and excitement -- even though the music is faithful to the films. (Listen to the opening bars of Marnie (main titles), which make one immediately sit up and take notice: this movie is ABOUT something! Then listen to the same opening bars on the "Hitchcock Thrillers" album (the Phase 4 one, whatever it was called), and you'll want to jolt that magnificent man with an electric cattle prod.)


(Digression. Sorry!)

 

[haineshisway]

I concur about the Conlon recording - it's terrific.

 

[Nelson Au]

Thanks for the replies. I hate to say that I have not seen The Artist yet. But I was aware of the controversy at the time and how Kim Novak took great offense to "Scene D'Amour" being used in that film.

I have heard about the Conlon re-recording and I was looking on and off for ways to get a copy of that book for the CD, so it's great to be able to sample it on YouTube!

I agree re-recordings just don't have the same feeling as the original or sound the same. I have several that I'm just not as thrilled to listen to as the original.

 

[Charles Smith]

I'm listening to it on YouTube, but I guess that Conlon/Paris recording hasn't been released otherwise? I'm not finding it anywhere.

 

[Nelson Au]

Charles,

The Conlon recording was done in 1999 and was part of an art project that was published as a book called Feature Film by Douglas Gordon. The book contained a CD with the recording. That book is out of print.

 

[Charles Smith]

And a good "previously owned" copy is about to be mine. Thanks!

 

[davidmatychuk]

Home Theatre Forum certainly attracts people willing to share useful information available nowhere else.