A Few Words About A few words about...™ The Wizard of Oz 3D -- in Blu-ray

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Robert Harris, Sep 20, 2013.

  1. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
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    I've never been a fan of colorization, aspect ratio changes or 3D conversions.  My immediate reaction is general disinterest.

    The conversion of Warner's new 3D conversion of M-G-M's 1939 three-strip Technicolor The Wizard of Oz, captured my attention, however.

    Re-scanned in 8k, and put through an extremely rigorous and precise conversion, this was something that I had to see, yet stood concerned about things being overdone.  One wouldn't want to see a circus made of it.

    From a home theater perspective, everything that I view in 3D is a bit tainted, and I know that going in.  I project via LCOS, which is quite problematic, and getting a cohesive (single 3D) image, without cross-talk can be extremely frustration, as well as troubling to one's vision.

    For those unfamiliar with the problem, projection of a quality 3D image goes far beyond simply getting enough light on the screen.

    I just had a chat with ISF's Kevin Miller about the problem, as I wanted to get my facts straight.

    Those viewing flat plasma flat panels are probably in the best shape.  LED are problematic.  Passive is probably the best, but at a loss of overall resolution.

    4k could solve the problem, by allowing full resolution concurrent with passive.  And with the recent confirmation that Blu-ray is going 4k, that may be the answer.

    Viewing The Wizard of Oz in 3D was an interesting experience.  The dimensional fields have been handled beautifully, and the original has been respected.  No circus here.

    Trying hard to look through the anomalies of my projection system, I'm betting that the result or more appropriate systems will be superb, and with little or no cross-talk.

    Viewing with cross-talk lowers perceived resolution and detail, so until the new systems arrive, I'll be watching this in 2D, as the restorative efforts have been superb -- perfect, actually.

    For those without the LCOS, LCD, LED active problems, I've a feeling you're in for a treat.

    Everyone knows the film.  Now it just has depth.

    Image - 5

    Audio - 5

    Very Highly Recommended in 2D, and also in 3D for those able to play it back without technical issues.

    If you do have problematic hardware, be aware that it's you, not the Blu-ray.

    RAH

     
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  2. FoxyMulder

    FoxyMulder 映画ファン

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    Passive has a few more issues besides loss of resolution, i think the best way to view 3D would be on a Sim2 Lumis 3D-S, it costs £34,000 pounds, no idea of the dollar cost, if i win the lottery i am buying it, DLP typically gives the best sharpness too and three chip means no rainbow issues and with that projector it should mean better blacks, something the 3D glasses actually help with anyways.

    Did you notice any pop out moments or is this just depth, i wonder if Lawrence Of Arabia is going to be the next classic 3D conversion project.
     
  3. EddieLarkin

    EddieLarkin Supporting Actor

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    Does the non-3D version of this new scan provide a purchase worthy leap over the original Blu-ray?
     
  4. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
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    Besides 3D, no. The earlier Blu-ray was magnificent. No need to "upgrade."

    RAH
     
  5. moviebuff75

    moviebuff75 Supporting Actor

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    They needed to fix the mistakes with the last version, especially Judy's partial missing line that they deleted in 1998. Other alterations were made to the mono track as well. Not to mention the fact that they eliminated scratches during the opening credits in the 3D version. And then there is the digital glitch and the window-boxing.
     
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  6. JoshZ

    JoshZ Second Unit

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    Single-chip DLP is the only display technology totally immune to 3D crosstalk. It has other issues (possible rainbow artifacts for a minority of viewers, and weak contrast, for example), but it handles 3D better than any other display type.

    The 3D on my JVC LCoS projector was so terrible as to be unwatchable. I eventually installed a secondary DLP projector just for 3D viewing.
     
  7. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
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    Believe that's my problem, but 3D is of lessor importance to me.
     
  8. Wayne_j

    Wayne_j Screenwriter

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    I just saw The Wizard of OZ in IMAX and lipsync was all over the place. Is it like that on disc or was it just my theater. There were sound effects that came noticeably before their cause.
     
  9. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
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    Sounds like a theatre-centric sync problem. The film is fine.RAH
     
  10. Michel_Hafner

    Michel_Hafner Supporting Actor

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    Passive and active can have cross talk. It depends on the system and hardware. The passive Dolby System I have seen lately on "Wolverine" on a big screen had practically no cross talk. But apparently some people see colour changes due to the filtering of the spectrum. JVC projectors are worse for cross talk than Sony, as far as I know, although both are LCD type (DILA versus SXRD).
     
  11. Powell&Pressburger

    Powell&Pressburger Screenwriter

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    This should look good on my months only old Panasonic Plasma ZT60 65"

    I was never a pusher for 3D, I felt like for certain films such as Resident Evil etc it would make it more fun and would be a perfect fit for theatrical screenings. When I heard James Cameron wanted to upgrade Titanic to 3D I kind of laughed thinking really? So far Titanic is the best looking 3D upconvert I've ever seen. In fact I feel it can best a film created for 3D. (I have never seen Avatar ever however)

    I have had the new Amazon Box Set on pre-order forever now, the 3D version should be an interesting watch. Glad to see the 3D seems to be well created for this release. I didn't plan on making a trip to the IMAX for it.

    I have heard that the MGM logo in 3D is rather impressive!
     
  12. FoxyMulder

    FoxyMulder 映画ファン

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    Do you have a film in mind that it can beat. ? For me no matter how good the conversion, native 3D is always better.
     
  13. Powell&Pressburger

    Powell&Pressburger Screenwriter

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    Of all the 3D films I've watched Titanic looks the best IMO. It beats even movies created in 3D. so far I've watched Toy Story 1-3, Cars 2, Beauty and the Beast, The Lion King, Nightmare Before Christmas, Tron Legacy, Dial M for Murder, The Great Gatsby, Top Gun, Jurassic Park, Up, Alice in Wonderland, Oz G&P, Finding Nemo, Monsters INC, Frankenweenie. Titanic still looks incredible in 3D.

    I'm not saying all the other 3D blu's I own aren't good, they are, Titanic just looks so good you'd swear it was filmed that way. IMO.

    Can't wait to see Wizard of Oz though!
     
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  14. FoxyMulder

    FoxyMulder 映画ファン

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    You have quite a few conversions on your list, i haven't seen some of them, for me a native shot 3D film like Resident Evil: After life or Journey To The Center Of The Earth look excellent, natural depth and good natural pop out effects which i don't consider a gimmick but i do think are part of the film and part and parcel with 3D, there is just something extra that shooting native brings to the table, it's unfortunate that so many films get converted and so few get shot native these days.

    I was disappointed with Frankenweenie in 3D, for any future showings i will watch in 2D.

    The absolute best 3D i have ever seen was in the animated film A Turtles Tale, lots of great depth, great pop out moments, average story and film but worth at least one screening for those who enjoy movies and have 3D capable displays, the director of that one worked on many an IMAX 3D documentary feature and knew how to get the very best out of the 3D format.

    I have put off watching Titanic in 3D, i was a little annoyed they opened the frame up, i like the wide epic look of 2.35:1, i will give it a watch in the next few months though and post some thoughts on it at home theater forum.
     
  15. Powell&Pressburger

    Powell&Pressburger Screenwriter

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    I didn't mind Titanic being changed to 1.78:1 for the 3D version only because the film was shot Super 35 so both have differences but had it been shot in Panavision etc I doubt the aspect ratio would have changed.Does the BLU ray also contain the 3D conversion process for TWoO? I know there was one posted on the net, but hoping it is featured on the BLU also.
     
  16. JoeDoakes

    JoeDoakes Cinematographer
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    Yes. I didn't think that 3D added that much to Titanic. They put some new effects in when the ship goes down, but other than that, it didn't seem to make much difference. Had it been shot in 3D, I would expect it to have been much better. Scenes such as where the automobiles are loaded onto the ship at the beginning and the iceberg hit might have been really something in 3D. I am going to try to see the 3D conversion of Wizard of Oz, however.
     
  17. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    I don't know if I'd say that they put in new effects. They corrected stars in the sky and the coloring on a funnel.
     
  18. Reed Grele

    Reed Grele Screenwriter

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    FoxyMulder, on 21 Sept 2013 - 4:27 PM, said:The absolute best 3D i have ever seen was in the animated film A Turtles Tale, lots of great depth, great pop out moments, average story and film but worth at least one screening for those who enjoy movies and have 3D capable displays, the director of that one worked on many an IMAX 3D documentary feature and knew how to get the very best out of the 3D format.

    If you liked the 3D in A Turtles Tale: Sammy's Adventures, be sure to check out the sequel:(A Turtle's Tale 2: Sammy's Escape from Paradise (DVD/Blu-Ray/3D Combo)
    Lots of great "in your face" moments. And the story has lots of new characters that are a hoot!

    It's only $11.99 right now on Amazon. A 3D no-brainer.
     
  19. ROclockCK

    ROclockCK Screenwriter
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    I greeted this project with enormous skepticism - in part because I have next to zero desire for 3D at home, and only selective interest in its application theatrically - in part because I seriously doubted that a 3D retrofit would bring anything significant to this classic either technologically or more importantly artistically - and in part because this is a classic, which meant tinkering with something that already has an evergreen life in its native 2D form. The whole thing seemed unnecessary and uncomfortably revisionist...just a cynical gimmick and cash-grab.

    But holy Mother of Baum...what a treat to see The Wizard of Oz presented like this in IMAX 3D...which is now on my short list of not only the most memorable movie experiences of this year, but also post-millennium. I mean, if I didn't know this movie was shot flat I would swear it was natively 3D. As exhibition stunts go, this was a corker!
    Before we even get to that wonderful 'geek-gasm' moment, our first clue regarding the respectful treatment this movie will receive starts with the IMAX 3D intro re-rendered in sepia to tie-in seamlessly with the opening credits and Kansas. After that, well, it's just one loving detail after another enhancing yet still honouring this classic...none of which I dare spoil here. Let's just say that anyone who loves this movie will at some point raise both eyebrows over how shrewdly and sensitively the dimensional effects have been rendered. I thought I knew this picture pretty well, but lost count how many times something new surfaced as a result of that added third dimension. It's uncanny. And unforgettable.

    So as far as this particular fan is concerned, although I'm unlikely to ever watch TWoO in 3D on home video, Warners is welcome to bring this baby back for limited IMAX 3D runs indefinitely. I'll be there in a snap.
     
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  20. Powell&Pressburger

    Powell&Pressburger Screenwriter

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    Does the new 2D disc feature a DTS HD track, or is it the same Dolby True HD track. Leaving the DTS HD audio on the 3D edition only?
     

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