If there were in fact dye prints, then the matrices must exist. In any event, I'm sure the color on any surviving dye prints would be a better reference than what they have done with this Blu-ray.Robert Harris said:
I'm unaware of of "short ends" ever being used on dye transfer prints. There are occasional joins, with a loss of image value at a splice, but the concept of "short end" does not fit into the technology.
The Public Library in Cincy has issues dating back to the 1950s. I'll try and go there tomorrow to look at the article for any pertinent info. Happy to put my Librarian skillz to good use in the service of my fellow Film Buffs!
I've never seen short ends used on anything other than Technicolor dye prints. Maybe we have are talking about different things. Unless a premium was paid (or not paid), they would put together whatever pieces of black & white stock they had to run through the matrice. When the dye prints are made, different pieces of stock (even of the exact same number) absorb the dyes differently, which virtually always results in a color shift at those points of the 2000ft reel.Robert Harris said:
I don't understand why you say "If a set did survive, I have no idea what purpose it might serve."? I there was a good set of Y C M matrice of the SOM, aside from being able to make new 35mm dye prints, the color of those prints could be used as a better color reference than what they have done on this Blu-ray. As I've previously said, I've never seen or heard of dye prints of SOM, so I really doubt that there is a matrice available. Although I don't know it first hand, I'm told that China is still making dye prints. I wonder if they're still using all the old equipment got from Technicolor in the early 1970s?Robert Harris said:
The Chinese "Technicolor" plant was shut down in 1993. In 1997 Technicolor re-introduced the dye transfer process for general release films and was used on Apocalypse Now Redux, Pearl Harbor, and Toy Story to name a few.Robert Harris said:
Thanks for that info. I've been retired since 1996 and never saw any of the "new" dye prints you mention. I was also unaware that China totally ceased making dye prints anymore. That's too bad, but I can't believe that there is NOWHERE in the world a dye print can be made from a matrice. While attempting to look into the SOM Technicolor matrice situation, I learned OTHER bad news. I was told that Technicolor is now in the process of shutting down ALL its FILM operations, which is personally sad to me. However, I'm told they will still be distributing digital pictures for DCI theatres on key protected hard drives like they currently do. I still don't understand what their actual function will be, unless they will be involved with "some" film operations for transfer purposes, etc.Robert Harris said:
Exactly. No prints ever do look exactly the same. Even the same print projected in a different theater under different conditions won't look the same. But prints produced through the same process will definitely look closer than prints produced through different processes.subjective adjustments said:
The 70mm prints were made on Eastman film stock, and as such would have a considerably different look from a Technicolor dye transfer print regardless of its gauge.
I was talking about printing matrices, but I was pointing out that the ideas are similar. We're not talking about "subtle" differences in color. The Blu-ray of SOM simply has the wrong color in many scenes. The reason I say "many scenes" is because in the other scenes the color could be wrong but without specific obvious references like green grass or blue sky, as long as the skin tones are reasonable, the human eye compensates. I compared the Technicolor matrices to panchromatic separations because the theory of both are similar. In the case of the matrices, once the dye chromaticity is correct, there is nothing subjective in the final print. While there may be subtle differences between an Eastman print when compared to an IB print, other than color saturation the difference shouldn't be that great on a properly timed Eastman print.
