A Few Words About A few words about...™ The Man Who Knew Too Much -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by haineshisway /t/324714/a-few-words-about-the-man-who-knew-too-much-in-blu-ray/30#post_3994563
It's easy to like something when you don't know what it should really look like - that's been my experience. From Mr. Harris's description, the color seems to be off quite a bit, but if you don't know what that color should be then sure it's easy to enjoy it. To me color that's off is as bad as grain scrubbing, edge enhancement, wrong aspect ratios, and any other things that people on boards are usually up in arms about. But the color is usually the first thing that gets a pass - The Searchers being a prime example. Wow, look how sharp that is, they said, and they were right. They just forgot the part about "look how yucky yellow that is." I get it, though - unless you know what the color is supposed to look like then the response is always, "It's not so bad, it looks good, what's wrong with the color?"
Someone posted her about the skies being all brown in the marketplace scene and how that seemed accurate to them. I don't think so and I'm sure Mr. Harris would agree.

He would.

I have been attempting to educate here for what seems like a decade...

and have failed.

How many people would knowingly purchase a three-legged race horse.

TMWKNM is a two-legged race horse.

Very sharp, however.

RAH

 

[Scott Calvert]

Scott how would you compare TMWKTM blu to the FP blu?

Family Plot needs a recall. It's terrible.
And Bruce is correct that I don't know what the color should be on TMWKTM. I've never seen a dye transfer print of it (that I know of anyway). All I know is when I watch the disc, and then read this thread I'm getting a sense that there a bit of hyperbole going on. And I say that knowing full well I have been accused (and maybe guilty) of occasionally going a bit over the top myself.
I just don't think it's that bad.

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Scott Calvert /t/324714/a-few-words-about-the-man-who-knew-too-much-in-blu-ray/60#post_3994571
Family Plot needs a recall. It's terrible.
And Bruce is correct that I don't know what the color should be on TMWKTM. I've never seen a dye transfer print of it (that I know of anyway). All I know is when I watch the disc, and then read this thread I'm getting a sense that there a bit of hyperbole going on. And I say that knowing full well I have been accused (and maybe guilty) of occasionally going a bit over the top myself.
I just don't think it's that bad.

A film does not normally fluctuate blue/yellow/blue/yellow.

This is derived from a horribly faded element, that is fully oxidized. White shirt collars should be white. Gray suits should be gray, and should remain so. Same with flesh tones. They do not constantly change. Skies are generally blue. Not yellow.

MWKTM is probably the worst BD that I've seen in the past five years or so. It makes Patton look beautiful in comparison.

RAH

 

[Moe Dickstein]

Maybe we can get another delay. What's that old saying about the third time...

 

[DavidJ]

A film does not normally fluctuate blue/yellow/blue/yellow.
This is derived from a horribly faded element, that is fully oxidized.  White shirt collars should be white.  Gray suits should be gray, and should remain so.  Same with flesh tones.  They do not constantly change.  Skies are generally blue.  Not yellow.
MWNTM is probably the worst BD that I've seen in the past five years or so.  It makes Patton look beautiful in comparison.
RAH

Wow. It's one thing for the color timing to be off a bit from what was intended and another entirely to have yellow skies and colors that constantly change. Skin tones that are off can be especially jarring.

 

[Scott Calvert]

A film does not normally fluctuate blue/yellow/blue/yellow.
This is derived from a horribly faded element, that is fully oxidized.  White shirt collars should be white.  Gray suits should be gray, and should remain so.  Same with flesh tones.  They do not constantly change.  Skies are generally blue.  Not yellow.
MWKTM is probably the worst BD that I've seen in the past five years or so.  It makes Patton look beautiful in comparison.
RAH

I'm watching this again. There is some blue/yellow fluctuation on the bus at the beginning but after that things settle down a bit. So far Doris Days lips are red, her eyes are blue and so are the skies. Her dinner dress is white with bold green patterns. Shirt collars are white. James Stewarts suit looks to be...navy blue maybe? This is the dinner scene. After that he's wearing a different suit, a grey one. There are greenish/yellow skies in most of the shots in the marketplace (some of which are projection shots) starting about 25:15 in. Outside of this scene the skies are blue.
I'm not saying the disc is an A+, it's variable but worst BD in five years? I just don't understand. Have you watched it all the way through? Maybe you skipped around and just happened to hit all the worst parts or something?

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Moe Dickstein /t/324714/a-few-words-about-the-man-who-knew-too-much-in-blu-ray/30#post_3994544
Just out of curiosity, Crawdaddy, is there ever a disc that you found unacceptable?

What has that got to do with this release? I haven't seen this disc yet so I might even agree with RAH and Kevin. Anyhow, I'll shut up on this box set until I actually do watch these discs in their entirety. Sorry, I missed meeting you the other day in LA.







Crawdaddy

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris /t/324714/a-few-words-about-the-man-who-knew-too-much-in-blu-ray/60#post_3994568
He would.

I have been attempting to educate here for what seems like a decade...

and have failed.

How many people would knowingly purchase a three-legged race horse.

TMWKNM is a two-legged race horse.

Very sharp, however.

RAH

I really hope you don't feel that way. Judging by the responses you get from most members regarding your disc critiques, I can't say you failed to educate others. Even those that don't fully agree with your educated opinion, appreciate and take great value from your stated comments.







Crawdaddy

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Robert Crawford /t/324714/a-few-words-about-the-man-who-knew-too-much-in-blu-ray/60#post_3994606

I really hope you don't feel that way. Judging by the responses you get from most members regarding your disc critiques, I can't say you failed to educate others. Even those that don't fully agree with your educated opinion, appreciate and take great value from your stated comments.

Crawdaddy

You realize that I sent you a twenty last week. Continuing in this vein is getting tedious. And the post office suggests against sending cash.

RAH

 

[Robert Crawford]

I hope emotions aren't getting too high in which we turn against each other due to differing opinions.







Crawdaddy

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris /t/324714/a-few-words-about-the-man-who-knew-too-much-in-blu-ray/60#post_3994614

You realize that I sent you a twenty last week. Continuing in this vein is getting tedious. And the post office suggests against sending cash.

RAH

RAH,

You know, I have the highest respect for you and greatly admire the work you have accomplished in your field. For you to take time out of your busy schedule to converse with the likes of me is really awesome and I want to thank you for doing so and being patient with me and my posting style.

 

[Kevin EK]

I'll have my pre-review review up tonight (kind of a non-denial denial, right?)...

Having watched through a series of scenes of TMWKTM yesterday, I can safely say that the yellow pulse happens at multiple points throughout the movie. It starts on the bus, and is really obnoxious there. Then it happens again in the marketplace. Then it happens again in the hotel room. Then it happens again at the Chappel. Then it happens again a few times at the Chappel. Then there's a really egregious shot of Doris Day where a solid blue horizontal line can be seen descending from the middle of the frame to the bottom. Then there's some more pulsing. That was the point where I threw in the towel and cried "Hold, enough!"

I agree that when the color is not pulsing, it's quite beautiful in places, especially the Moroccan restaurant. But even then the pulsing starts up again and ruins the shot.

I'm going to Recommend the set on the whole over the strength of the 10 really good transfers. But I have to put the warning out about the other five or I'm not doing my job here.

 

[JohnMor]

/t/324714/a-few-words-about-the-man-who-knew-too-much-in-blu-ray/60#post_3994621
I'll have my pre-review review up tonight (kind of a non-denial denial, right?)...

Having watched through a series of scenes of TMWKTM yesterday, I can safely say that the yellow pulse happens at multiple points throughout the movie. It starts on the bus, and is really obnoxious there. Then it happens again in the marketplace. Then it happens again in the hotel room. Then it happens again at the Chappel. Then it happens again a few times at the Chappel. Then there's a really egregious shot of Doris Day where a solid blue horizontal line can be seen descending from the middle of the frame to the bottom. Then there's some more pulsing. That was the point where I threw in the towel and cried "Hold, enough!"

I agree that when the color is not pulsing, it's quite beautiful in places, especially the Moroccan restaurant. But even then the pulsing starts up again and ruins the shot.

I'm going to Recommend the set on the whole over the strength of the 10 really good transfers. But I have to put the warning out about the other five or I'm not doing my job here.

Well crap. Oh well. I can't change it. Best I can do is write and/or email Universal and politely complain about the lack of quality on this title and FP and hope they get revisited at some point.

 

[Moe Dickstein]

What has that got to do with this release?  I haven't seen this disc yet so I might even agree with RAH and Kevin.  Anyhow, I'll shut up on this box set until I actually do watch these discs in their entirety.  Sorry, I missed meeting you the other day in LA.
Crawdaddy

Likewise, it was great to get a chance to meet and talk to several people I've known virtually for something like a decade, but with my work schedule i wasn't able to get over to Burbank as much as I would have liked.
The reason I ask is just that it seems that in many releases, not just this one that your opinion is that things are good enough for you even when many others take issue. I just wanted to see where your personal line was drawn for ok/not ok. I don't mean to be confrontational, but genuinely curious.
I'm younger, but I've been through Beta/VHS/LD/DVD and now HD. So yes, often a BD will be the best we've seen but when improved formats allow for higher quality and more accurate representation, and this is not done due to choices made and not quality of elements existing, I feel this should be pointed out and discussed so that we can make the right decision for our own enjoyment. And when we don't buy for those reasons, it's important also to let the ones making those choices know why we made our choice.

 

[Robert Harris]

RAH,
You know, I have the highest respect for you and greatly admire the work you have accomplished in your field.  For you to take time out of your busy schedule to converse with the likes of me is really awesome and I want to thank you for doing so and being patient with me and my posting style.

Robert
Nothing wrong with your posting style. I'd be most interested in walking you through Man Who Knew so that I can explain in detail what you're actually seeing and why you're seeing it. Possibly I make light of too many things on line, but this one has me angry.
People have a right to expect a quality product.
I would highly suggest that, once you've received product, that you contact either Kevin or me, as some things are neither easily discernible, nor what they may seem to be on the surface.
One of the worst discs in the history of Blu-ray.
Seriously. And a potential threat to the very existence of the film in its proper state.
RAH

 

[Moe Dickstein]

RAH,
When you refer to this as a terrible Blu-Ray, how much of it is due to the materials being un-restored? Could a better but not perfect disc have been made doing work solely in the digital realm, or are there also problems over and above the elements involved that are related to the mastering/encoding of the disc?

 

[Robert Harris]

RAH,
When you refer to this as a terrible Blu-Ray, how much of it is due to the materials being un-restored? Could a better but not perfect disc have been made doing work solely in the digital realm, or are there also problems over and above the elements involved that are related to the mastering/encoding of the disc?

Ted,
The problem is totally based upon a lack of restorative efforts. The problems cannot be handled with the current element in any realm. Irrelevant of mastering. The film needs to return to its foundation.
RAH

 

[AnthonyClarke]

Re the reported dreadful condition of the Blu ray transfer of The Man Who Knew too Much ....
Someone here asked which was the best of all the problematic home release issues of this title.
I was told some years ago that the PAL DVD of this title was probably the best of all so far -- better than the NTSC issue in the US 'Masterpiece' set.
Fortunately I kept a copy of that PAL disc (Australian issue) when I bought my complete US Masterpiece DVD set, but it's still disgraceful that I won't be able to enjoy the benefits of Blu ray transfer on my 110-inch projection screen.
Ah well, there's always Rear Window and Vertigo to savour!

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Moe Dickstein /t/324714/a-few-words-about-the-man-who-knew-too-much-in-blu-ray/60#post_3994631
Likewise, it was great to get a chance to meet and talk to several people I've known virtually for something like a decade, but with my work schedule i wasn't able to get over to Burbank as much as I would have liked.
The reason I ask is just that it seems that in many releases, not just this one that your opinion is that things are good enough for you even when many others take issue. I just wanted to see where your personal line was drawn for ok/not ok. I don't mean to be confrontational, but genuinely curious.
I'm younger, but I've been through Beta/VHS/LD/DVD and now HD. So yes, often a BD will be the best we've seen but when improved formats allow for higher quality and more accurate representation, and this is not done due to choices made and not quality of elements existing, I feel this should be pointed out and discussed so that we can make the right decision for our own enjoyment. And when we don't buy for those reasons, it's important also to let the ones making those choices know why we made our choice.

Unfortunately, I took it that way.

As to the second bolded part of your post, it's what this forum is all about, but not everyone is going to agree on what's acceptable to them for reasons I already stated in earlier posts.

I spent a great deal of my time at last week's HTF Meet in LA expressing HTF members concern about PQ issues regarding Blu-ray. In every conversation I had with with studio executives like George Feltenstein, Schawn Belston, some Paramount folks I tried to express our displeasure with some of those issues including excessive DNR, OAR for the DVD MOD programs, coloring issues on particular titles and making sure Blu-rays released today are up to current PQ standards which are higher than BD standards from 5-6 years ago. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to talk with Bob O'Neil at Universal, but the way Universal arranged our visit there that day, it seem to me that they didn't want to answer too many questions, particularly, about this box set. Anyhow, the fight for higher quality is an on-going one that we've been fighting here since the early days of SD DVD and will continue to do so. However, it has never been my philosophy in life to cut off one's nose to spite one's face and especially now with my years on this here earth dwindling down to my twilight years.






Crawdaddy

 

[benbess]

Ted,
The problem is totally based upon a lack of restorative efforts. The problems cannot be handled with the current element in any realm. Irrelevant of mastering. The film needs to return to its foundation.
RAH

Hope they hire you to do that....