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- Robert Harris
I have been assured that the Blu-ray is a by-product of the 4k scan.RAH
Well, that answers that. Do you wonder if the BD preparation was done properly?Robert Harris said:I have been assured that the Blu-ray is a by-product of the 4k scan.RAH
Mr. Rutan, who does superb work, is now at NT. He did the optical work for us on Spartacus.dannyboy104 said:Highlights from an interview by Bill Duelly with John Kirk, Director of Technical Operations, MGM/UA and Paul Rutan Jr., and Tony Munroe of Triage Motion Services.
Restoring The Great Escape
From Cinema Retro magazine January 2005
CR: Was the original negative Technicolor or Eastman?
JK: Eastman
CR: Were release prints made in IB Technicolor or were they only DeLuxe (Eastman)?
JK: DeLuxe
CR: Was the methodology employed by Lowry Digital utilized for this restoration?
JK: No, no digital picture work was used.
CR: What is the current state of the negative?
PR: The original negative has been completely repaired and, many hours were spent cleaning the original negative, frame by frame, by hand. We then fully color-corrected the A & B rolls, the B-roll containing about fifty fixes. We’ve done quite a bit of repair to the original negative so the negative is now in very good condition.
CR: Tell me about some of the fixes that were required?
PR: We used the original Y-C-M separation masters exclusively for replacement fixes to the original negative. We found that these masters were very flat and the three records didn’t fit. So we optically fitted and recombined the separations and manipulated the contrast, photo-chemically, to match the original negative. The replacements were printed on Eastman 2242 Estar Inter-negative.
This included the main title, which had many, many damaged sections and several poor laboratory replacement duplicate negatives that had been cut into the original negative over the past forty years. Some of these old sections were from a print: some were made from a poor Inter-positive.
CR: How do you color correct the images on the original negative? Is it through timing of the printing or are sections reprinted from the separations and then re inserted?
PR: We did both. We carefully timed the sections that were correctable and replaced those that weren’t, from the Y-C-M’S.
CR: Were the original Y-C-M separations created from the negative at the time of release? This seems odd if they did not make Technicolor release prints.
(Editors note: Technicolor prints were made of the trailers. This was not an uncommon occurrence.
PR: Technicolor wasn’t the only lab that made Y-C-M’s, Deluxe, MGM and CFI made them, as well.
CR: Was this standard practice? If so, it certainly seems to have come in handy for trying to recreate faded elements.
PR: Technicolor was the only lab, however, who insisted that separations be made on all their Dye Transfer titles. Most UA titles that didn’t print at Technicolor didn’t get separated. We were lucky with the Great Escape.
CR: Any ‘alternative footage’ employed or is it the standard theatrical release?
JR: Standard theatrical release
CR: Were the mag soundtrack elements remixed?
JK: The sound was remixed from the mono English comp and music & effects tracks into stereo-ised Dolby Digital 5.1.
CR: Is this the version on the recent Special Edition DVD?
JK: That DVD was released late last year before the restoration of the picture and sound were completed. The only way to see the restoration for the next few years will be on theatre screens. There will not be a DVD release anytime in the near future
Thanks
Dannyboy104
This is my only gripe about all this, i understand it looks very good and i appreciate your review but if we are now learning it is from a 4K scan then why does it not look like its from a 4K scan, of course you mention a by-product of the 4K scan so i assume that's maybe the reason but not why, can you perhaps elaborate more on this.Robert Harris said:What it does not look like is a new scan off the OCN at 4k, restored at 4k and down-rezzed to Blu-ray.
Other than that, it looks very acceptable for the film stock, age and use.
RAH
You are not, although it doesn't become obvious or problematic unless the image is enlarged.I actually did an interesting test comparing two Blu-rays with publicity noted 4k restorations. I sampled both at 2x enlargement.I was looking at grain structure. With Great Escape, grain became soft, and it was difficult to determine whether said grain was anamorphic as it should have been. Resolution dropped. And the stair-stepping you note becomes very obvious. On my system, this was equivalent to projecting an image 18 feet in width. Anyone running at 60 inches is unaffected.The other example that I tested was Funny Girl. Enlarging had the following affect. The larger image appeared as if I was projecting a 35mm print, and changed lenses to one half the length.Grain held perfectly, while being enlarged. Resolution was unaffected, as the sharp image simply became larger. There were zero digital anomalies. Wish I had the answer.RAHOblivion138 said:Am I the only one seeing a lot of aliasing in this transfer? I mean, it looks decent, but I'm definitely seeing the "staircase" phenomenon in pretty much every scene. In motion, I find it a bit distracting.
As a little kid in the 60's I immediately gravitated to McQueen and Newman and owe so much of my (admirable) iconoclasm to that exposure. In true 60's fashion, these rebels had a cause even when they didn't. Watch their movies and you'll know what I mean.Ronald Epstein said:Just love this film. It is a true classic. I so much miss Steve McQueen.
Thanks...just wanted to make sure my eyes aren't going in my old age.Robert Harris said:You are not, although it doesn't become obvious or problematic unless the image is enlarged.I actually did an interesting test comparing two Blu-rays with publicity noted 4k restorations. I sampled both at 2x enlargement.I was looking at grain structure. With Great Escape, grain became soft, and it was difficult to determine whether said grain was anamorphic as it should have been. Resolution dropped. And the stair-stepping you note becomes very obvious. On my system, this was equivalent to projecting an image 18 feet in width. Anyone running at 60 inches is unaffected.The other example that I tested was Funny Girl. Enlarging had the following affect. The larger image appeared as if I was projecting a 35mm print, and changed lenses to one half the length.Grain held perfectly, while being enlarged. Resolution was unaffected, as the sharp image simply became larger. There were zero digital anomalies.Wish I had the answer.RAH
Worse than that really. It wasn't a new camp, it was a new compound in an old camp. The camp kept on getting over-crowded, so they had to keep adding new compounds. The prisoners volunteered to help build the compound, & so were busy stealing & hiding tools & even putting in false walls to hide things behind! You'd think the Germans would have known, but maybe they needed the help. The film gets everything wrong! But seeing as it's one of the most entertaining films ever made, all is forgiven, & if you want history, read a book, & there are several good books written about it. It's an epic story, & you really need a series like Band Of Brothers to do it justice...but would it be as much fun?Ronald Epstein said:PS: Never understood why the Germans would give known tunnel escapees gardening tools. Also, if I were to nitpick at the events, a little too much gardeninggoing on and men coming and going, standing in the middle of the dirt patches.Suppose one really needs to suspend belief that it doesn't look suspicious.
The color doesn't seem accurate to me either.MichaelEl said:The DVDBeaver review is right: this Blu-Ray has the dreaded "teal and orange" look. In particular, the nice blue skies from the DVD now have an ugly green-blue cast. Check out this screencap, for example:
http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/comparison.php?cap1=22053&cap2=22045&art=full&image=0&cID=1692&action=1&lossless=#vergleich
Not being an expert on color timing, I don't know if this appearance is reflective of original prints or if it's the historical revisionism of the ALIENS Blu-Ray again. I tend to think it's the latter, as I don't seem to remember any pre-90s films having a constant "teal and orange" appearance.
They look fine to me.Lromero1396 said:The color doesn't seem accurate to me either.
I must be a bit slow this evening, I don't understand this post at all. As an ex filmlab timer (grader in the UK) & telecine colourist, the colour is all down to the timing. The person who's doing the colour grading has a lot of power, you can't have good colour & bad timing. I must say the caps look a wee bit cold to me. I remember seeing it at the pictures in 1963, & I can't say I remember what it looked like, but I'm sure it looked like yer average Hollywood film looked like then, nice colour, good greyscale & neutral grays. I'll be seeing the Blu in a month or so, should be interesting.Moe Dickstein said:not everyone dreads "teal and orange" it's only a problem if applied to something that didn't get timed that way in the first place. It irritates me to see scores of people just generally bashing the wrong thing - it's not the colors that are bad, it's the accuracy of the timing that is at fault.
Well, the problem is the caps aren't all that accurate - as they never are. The transfer I watched on Blu-ray has blue skies. Have you seen the actual transfer, because if not, I'm afraid these caps discussions bring nothing interesting to the table.MichaelEl said:The DVDBeaver review is right: this Blu-Ray has the dreaded "teal and orange" look. In particular, the nice blue skies from the DVD now have an ugly green-blue cast. Check out this screencap, for example:
http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/comparison.php?cap1=22053&cap2=22045&art=full&image=0&cID=1692&action=1&lossless=#vergleich
Not being an expert on color timing, I don't know if this appearance is reflective of original prints or if it's the historical revisionism of the ALIENS Blu-Ray again. I tend to think it's the latter, as I don't seem to remember any pre-90s films having a constant "teal and orange" appearance.