A Few Words About A few words about...™ Pinocchio -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Douglas Monce]

I think they my have both been paraphrasing from the American Widescreen Museum. The paranoia is a bit of a stretch. I mean really there are only so many ways to describe a technical process accurately.

Technically, Technirama was (at least in some large theaters) a 70mm format with regard to presentation, as there were no horizontal presentations in North America. It was never really intended to be seen in its native format.

Doug

 

[PaulDA]

It is quite clear that far more than "skin colour" has been changed and your assumption that it was done out of "political correctness" requires a leap of faith beyond the evidence you've provided.

You don't like the colour changes. Fine. You find other problems with the transfer. Fine. But to suggest the changes result from lazy incompetence, based on the flimsy reasoning you've offered (and even flimsier evidence to support it) is what is rubbing people the wrong way. Other people have expressed dissatisfaction with various transfers without feeling the need to adopt the arrogant tone you've displayed. You might find that people would be willing to consider your complaints more sympathetically if you adopted a different tone. Whether you care is another matter, but surely you know that taking an arrogant and condescending tone only invites the same in return.

 

[Michael Rogers]

I'm just curious as to how this change in the color of the face (it's still a color associated with Native Americans) would blunt possible PC criticism.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Too much back-and-forth (and escalating nastiness ) now.

I just want to throw this possibility out there that might potentially help reconcile the conflicting issue at hand:

Is it possible that the video compression is at fault here for at least some of the PQ issues? That is, are we perhaps seeing some of these issues due to compression artifacts?

I know we all want to believe that the latest codecs offer (virtually) artifact-free compression quality -- at least far better than old MPEG2 -- but it would not surprise me too much if some of the issues are caused by compression (or decompression) artifacts (or some other mastering issue). That certainly would help explain how some of the issues made it pass the restoration team, who presumably were not the ones handling the video compression/mastering on a "frame-by-frame" basis.

_Man_

 

[Mike Frezon]

Looks like it's getting to be time to "unsubscribe..."

 

[Stephen_J_H]

That's what it looks like to me, rather than an issue with the restoration itself: some weird little blip rather than anything in the source.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

If we're talking about the yellow/white shirt instance, that doesn't look like a compression issue to my eyes: compression artifacts, even with the new codecs, resemble in form the sorts of things we had with MPEG2 (edge-noise, background shifting, macroblocking etc.)

You wouldn't have a case of a perfectly compressed noise-free image except for a color-filed area like a yellow shirt suddenly change colors mysteriously that way. At least not to my knowledge unless something has radically changed regarding compression artifacting.

My assumption is that it was a moment where an algorithm that was assisting with color correction got tricked because of that bright spot-light and was confused for a few seconds as it "lost track" of the "shirt object" to which it had been assigned.

 

[PaulDA]

Whatever the cause of the "shirt issue", in the end, I think the old maxim--do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good--applies here. This film looks great and when I think of how lucky my children are to have access to something of this quality at home (compared to my 13 inch B&W TV experience at their age), I'm prepared to live with the occasional lapse from perfection. YMMV

 

[RobertR]

Agreed. This is an example of human fallibility, as opposed to what was done on transfers such as Patton and Gangs of New York, which are examples of incompetence and/or stupidity and/or ignorance.

 

[Ethan Riley]

I feel oddly responsible for all this ruckus; merely because I was one of the first to point out the disc's minor flaws. However, I do feel that this forum, and the internet in general, are perfect places to criticize and nitpick dvds. We have every right to do so--we did pay the $30-$40 to own this disc. If we, as film fans, are not vigilant, then dvd producers will have no incentive to perfect their craft over time. And they do get better every year. They do hear what goes on in forums such as this. They do respond. They realize that people really are paying attention to their work. It matters, even though Disney apologists tend to render our words impotent.

The fact is--Pinocchio is one of the finest examples of BluRay technology to date. It is not, however, without flaw. For us to turn a blind eye to the (admittedly minor) errors would mean that we don't care. I do care.

 

[PaulDA]

Pointing out the flaws is not wrong. Hyperbole and unfounded accusations of laziness and incompetence, however (and I do not consider your comments as either one of those) are counterproductive.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

Hopefully that puts an end to it. Well said, Paul.

 

[ScottR]

Is there still a chance that Disney will offer a replacement disc for the audio omissions? How long does it usually take to hear something on the matter?

 

[TravisR]

If I remember correctly, it took a long time to hear about the Silly Symphonies replacement DVD and it must have taken at least a couple months for the Pirates Of The Caribbean Blu-ray replacement so it's most likely too early to hear about a replacement program for this (if it happens).

I'm sure others have done it already but I'm going to call and write Disney's customer service hotline and make a polite complaint about the missing audio. While I assume that Disney is aware of chatter on various message boards, contacting them directly will most likely yield better results.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Yes. That is well put, Paul.

 

[rich_d]

Human fallibility ... true but brought on by process issues.

The hope of these semi-automated computer assisted processes is to save money and the potential that computers can handle some things 'better' than a human being. Naturally the process has human oversight and decision-making, but what a tough position to be put in. The oversight is an after-the-fact review of the automated coloring (or computer assisted coloring) is put in the tough position of literally playing 'what's wrong with this picture?' Not easy.

Having said that, seeing problems reported on the Internet mere days after Pinocchio's video release can't sit well with Disney management and hopefully they will consider process steps to improve the progress they have made that I've already posted about.

If it does sit well with them, they have a bigger problem.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

Problems have never sat well with Disney. See the PotC framing issue thread and subsequent replacement programme as proof of this. We're not dealing with Magnolia/Magnet here, folks.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

"No pain, no gain..." I guess.

Let's just try not to immediately demonize (or whatever) the folks who are at least ambitious enough and put in the hard work and resources into advancing the state-of-the-art in HT presentation of these cinematic classics. Yes, Disney (like most any non-profit company) is in the business to make $$$, but probably most (if not completely all) of the folks involved don't do it just turn a fast buck. If they didn't really care about their work (beyond just the paycheck), they'd probably be doing something else to make $$$ instead.

Yes, the product is apparently not flawless. But what do you really expect though? Honestly, I bet someone can nitpick *any* BD release apart over a few different minor flaws that most everyone else wouldn't be bothered by. "Brought on by process issues, " but exactly what process doesn't have issues though?? Would probably be more productive to adopt a more positive/encouraging approach to the matter me thinks. But maybe some of us are just too forgiving I guess... :rolleyes

_Man_

PS: I should say again though that I have not actually seen this title in action yet, so maybe I too will become quite disappointed in it. And I'm not suggesting for anyone to want less for their $$$. But it does seem like some of the sentiments are just a bit too negative particularly against the folks who work on these releases (rather than simply pointing out the actual flaws and reporting them to Disney and asking for fixes)...

 

[Edwin-S]

^^^

I doubt you will be that disappointed with the restoration. The film looks very good, despite the minor errors that have occurred. A corrected disc with a replacement program would be nice, but the errors that occurred do not render the film unwatchable.

 

[RobertR]

They're similar to continuity errors in that respect.