A Few Words About A few words about...™ It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Scott_Lemon
Hi Robert
So, of the additional 30+ minutes of run time, how much of this footage still exists and is restorable (assuming a limitless budget)?
Would it be possible to one day get back to the 192:32 runtime? The 196:32? Or even as far back as the 207,210 and 219 minute runtimes?

I believe at last check it was around 187. The 219 version was pre-final, and some of that material ended up on the laser.

RAH

 

[GMpasqua]

I could never understand why studios would destroy cuts to major films - usually during this time period a film would be sold to TV and many times a long film would be spread out over two nights - requiring the network to request additional footage to pad the running time.



This was the case with "Mutiny on the Bounty" which only aired the prologue and epilogue for TV (Never used in the theaters)



Yet long expensive Roadshow films suchs as "It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World" "South Pacific" "Doctor Dolittle" and "Hawaii" all had their cut material destroyed (Luckily the "1776" trims survived destruction)

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by GMpasqua

I could never understand why studios would destroy cuts to major films - usually during this time period a film would be sold to TV and many times a long film would be spread out over two nights - requiring the network to request additional footage to pad the running time.



This was the case with "Mutiny on the Bounty" which only aired the prologue and epilogue for TV (Never used in the theaters)



Yet long expensive Roadshow films suchs as "It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World" "South Pacific" "Doctor Dolittle" and "Hawaii" all had their cut material destroyed (Luckily the "1776" trims survived destruction)

What is kept changes from studio to studio and producer to producer. When the OCN of MW was cut, the separation masters were then shipped into cutting to match. Had the seps been left intact, there would be no problem today, with the exception of some missing track.

A pity, but not unique.

RAH

 

[John Morgan]

Here's a quick chronological rundown on the film: 7 June 1963 - Cutting still in progress, film ran 219:37 2 July 1963 - film ran 210:03 7 August - Technicolor shipped an optical soundtrack for 35mm printing - long version 6 Sept - 70mm answer print shipped from lab, running time 2:10:03 24 Oct 3:06 cut from reels 9 - 13, with a short addition to 13. 4 Nov - Running time 207:05 6 Nov - Final test screenings in Boston and Chicago - running time: 196:32, not counting intermission 7 Nov - LA opening at 192:32 19 Nov NY / Chi / Boston openings 2 Dec - London opening 18 Dec - Opens Atlanta, Cleveland, Pitts, San Fran, Montreal, Paris at 192:32 19 Dec - Cut to 162:45 with music - intermission removed All prints in service at the time of the final cut were returned to Hollywood, cut to the short version, and re-dubbed.  Some prints were returned to service withOverture, Entr'acte, Intermission, Exit music intact.  Most newly produced prints were produced without music. RAH 

In the timeline, given by Robert Harris, the last entry is 19 December - Cut to 162:45 with music - Intermission removedSo, taking the general release version at 154 minutes of picture material and add up-Overture music 2:26Entr'Acte music 3:41Exit music 2:17If my math is correct, this would then be a total of 162:24, and the pauses between music and picture would make up the other 20 seconds. So, what we have on this Blu Ray, with a timing of something like 159 minutes, is everything but the Entr'acte music for the cut roadshow 70mm version I saw in San Diego in 1964. Is this essentially correct?

 

[GMpasqua]

It would pretty great if the cut scenes could at least be presented in some form (as a screen shot of the script) so we could understand some of the loose ends. I always wondered what Buster Keaton's scene was all about.

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by John Morgan
In the timeline, given by Robert Harris, the last entry is
19 December - Cut to 162:45 with music - Intermission removed
So, taking the general release version at 154 minutes of picture material and add up-
Overture music 2:26
Entr'Acte music 3:41
Exit music 2:17
If my math is correct, this would then be a total of 162:24, and the pauses between music and picture would make up the other 20 seconds.
So, what we have on this Blu Ray, with a timing of something like 159 minutes, is everything but the Entr'acte music for the cut roadshow 70mm version I saw in San Diego in 1964. Is this essentially correct?

Yes.

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by GMpasqua
It would pretty great if the cut scenes could at least be presented in some form (as a screen shot of the script) so we could understand some of the loose ends. I always wondered what Buster Keaton's scene was all about.

The Tracy /Keaton scene is very simple. Tracy is in a luncheonette, getting his well-deserved ice cream. He's at a phone booth.

Keaton is at his seaside facility.

The scene cuts back and forth from one to the other. Dialogue regards making sure the boat is ready, and there's something in it for Keaton.

I've always felt that it was best removed, but interesting nonetheless.

RAH

 

[John Morgan]

Since studios love anniversary hooks, if this MAD WORLD blu-ray sells beyond expectations for MGM, and I guess that would be determined after the WalMart exclusive period when it goes into general release, and they get Robert Harris to supervise a full-blown restoration, I assume it could be ready for 2013, which would make it the 50th anniversary. I guess we could write polite letters to MGM for this to happen, but probably sales would be the convincer for them. Here's hoping! I bought two copies. Hopefully they will arrive today or tomorrow. The window of delivery they give is 7th - 11th.

 

[mercyflight]

John, we've been preparing lots of stuff for a 50th anniversary disc. I hope it happens too! (PS- Rcih Scrivani says hello!)
Paul

 

[John Morgan]

Hi Paul, and tell Richard hello for me too. Good the hear about some real thought going into this film for a 50th anniversary edition. It is one of my all-time favorite films, as I know for you, and I think Rich too.
Anyway, I hope the mail lady brings me my copy today. I even drove to my local WalMart, but they didn't seem to know what I was talking about. I got my JiffyPop ready to pop and some friends that are dying to see the BluRay. :pc:

 

[Douglas R]

Apparently this was scanned from 65mm by Fotokem Industries Inc. :
"At FotoKem we QC 65mm IP’s on a 50˝ plasma monitor within our 65mm HD telecine suite to insure their photographic integrity. Digitizing 65mm classics at FotoKem occurs on one of our two matched IMAGICA XE 65mm scanners, nicknamed ‘Big Foot’ and ‘Yeti’ due to their sizable footprint. Armed with 11K sensors, they are the world’s only film scanners able to sample 65mm negative at 8K resolution ‘perf to perf’, and have been used in this capacity on many 65mm classics, including ‘South Pacific’, ‘It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World’ and others.
While the sampling of the negative element occurs at 8K (wide) resolution, digital mastering – which moves us from preservation into the realm of restoration – occurs at either 4K, 2K or HD resolution, depending on the deliverable requirements and budgetary realities of each project. 4K digital mastering from an 8K scan is an ideal situation when preserving or restoring a 65mm classic. FotoKem is engaged at the time of this writing on such as restoration for 20th Century Fox on the 65mm classic, ‘The Sound of Music’. The results are as breathtaking as you might imagine; and the digital tools at our disposal are affording us the opportunity to improve long-standing issues such as flicker and gate hairs. We are guided in this work, as in all of our 65mm preservation work, by an over-riding maxim: honor the original, and do no harm.
65mm classics handled by FotoKem include: Dr.Dolittle, West Side Story, It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, South Pacific, Khartoum, Can Can, The Sound
of Music, Baraka, Oklahoma!, The Bible, Cleopatra and Star!"

 

[Scott Calvert]

Apparently this was scanned from 65mm by Fotokem Industries Inc. :
"At FotoKem we QC 65mm IP’s on a 50˝ plasma monitor within our 65mm HD telecine suite to insure their photographic integrity. Digitizing 65mm classics at FotoKem occurs on one of our two matched IMAGICA XE 65mm scanners, nicknamed ‘Big Foot’ and ‘Yeti’ due to their sizable footprint. Armed with 11K sensors, they are the world’s only film scanners able to sample 65mm negative at 8K resolution ‘perf to perf’, and have been used in this capacity on many 65mm classics, including ‘South Pacific’, ‘It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World’ and others.
While the sampling of the negative element occurs at 8K (wide) resolution, digital mastering – which moves us from preservation into the realm of restoration – occurs at either 4K, 2K or HD resolution, depending on the deliverable requirements and budgetary realities of each project. 4K digital mastering from an 8K scan is an ideal situation when preserving or restoring a 65mm classic. FotoKem is engaged at the time of this writing on such as restoration for 20th Century Fox on the 65mm classic, ‘The Sound of Music’. The results are as breathtaking as you might imagine; and the digital tools at our disposal are affording us the opportunity to improve long-standing issues such as flicker and gate hairs. We are guided in this work, as in all of our 65mm preservation work, by an over-riding maxim: honor the original, and do no harm.
65mm classics handled by FotoKem include: Dr.Dolittle, West Side Story, It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, South Pacific, Khartoum, Can Can, The Sound
of Music, Baraka, Oklahoma!, The Bible, Cleopatra and Star!"

Cleopatra....interesting

 

[David Deeb]

It would pretty great if the cut scenes could at least be presented in some form (as a screen shot of the script) so we could understand some of the loose ends. I always wondered what Buster Keaton's scene was all about.

Had I not been reading this thread this week, I wouldn't have recognized Keaton from this brief & unusual scene. I didn't even remember him being in the movie.
Shame that Keaton and the Three Stooges weren't given at least a few lines or something a bit more substantial to do. At least something along the lines of what Jack Benny got to do.
Great BD everyone! Go buy it.

 

[GMpasqua]

Had I not been reading this thread this week, I wouldn't have recognized Keaton from this brief & unusual scene. I didn't even remember him being in the movie.
Shame that Keaton and the Three Stooges weren't given at least a few lines or something a bit more substantial to do. At least something along the lines of what Jack Benny got to do.
Great BD everyone! Go buy it.

The Three Stooges is a great sight gag. I don't think they needed to say anything - just looking, at them and thinking about the situtation, the mind wheels with so many possibilites you can't help but laugh

Keato's had more to do but as stated it was cut so what was left was a walk on sight gag - funny - but with the cuts - you don't understand what's really going on and how he's involved. Keaton could have been given more to do

 

[Rachael B]

The Stooges and Keaton were purr-dy elderly at this point. I doubt that the lot could of done much more for the film at this point...?

 

[mercyflight]

"Shame that Keaton and the Three Stooges weren't given at least a few lines or something a bit more substantial to do. At least something along the lines of what Jack Benny got to do."
Stanley Kramer told me that it was totally intentional that the Three Stooges just BE there. A tribute. A reference. "NO EXTRA SHTICK" was his words- or at that point the film's "world" would changed to the Three Stooges world, and the film's slapstick is very well done as it is.
It's interesting that afer Buster Keaton's phone call scene was deleted, the scene of him at the end at the harbor was kept. They could have easily clipped that out during the chase. But my theory is that, Damn it, they wanted Buster Keaton in the film in some way. I'm glad, for he;s very good in his brief appearance.
Paul

 

[Matt Stieg]

First and foremost, having now spent over three hours with techs from Oppo and Anthem, the sync problem is almost fixed, and
will get fixed the rest of the way via offset on the Anthem. What I was originally seeing, an advance of almost two frames, is now
down to under one, which is fine.
I have no idea why this occurred, nor do any of the techs. These things just happen, and I apologize for any concerns.

Mr. Harris, if I may ask what exactly DID you and the techs do? I mean, there definitely IS an audio sync on this blu-ray, but it's certainly not unique and I've seen many other blu-rays and DVDs with similar problems. Like I said in my earlier post, my Pioneer receiver has an audio delay that goes up to 9 frames, so if I notice the audio slightly ahead of the video I simply add a little delay (usually 1.5--3 frames will suffice, which is around 50--100 ms). Does your receiver not have an audio delay function?

 

John Morgan: isn't it true that you can hear Ethel Merman in the song as it appears in the movie, but on the soundtrack her line is sung by somebody else?
As far as the quality of the Blu-Ray is concerned, if I can clearly see the "NIXON FOR GOVERNOR" storefront and the theater marquee showing "Cape Fear" during the final chase sequence, I'll be very happy.

 

[David Deeb]

The Stooges and Keaton were purr-dy elderly at this point. I doubt that the lot could of done much more for the film at this point...?

That's not quite accurate.
While the Three Stooges' age, as well as their new found appeal to children, meant they didn't hit & slap each like they did in the 30's and 40's, The Stooges were very active at the time of Mad World.
They were very busy making several feature films in the 1960s including "The Three Stooges Go Around the World in a Daze" & "4 for Texas", both released in 1963 - the same year as Mad World.
Later, in 1965, they released "The Outlaws is Coming" & produced dozens of live wraparound segments for their cartoon series around 1964 and 1965 as well. Other odds and ends kept them busy after that. Yes, they were much older, but Moe Howard didn't stop trying to perform until his death.
After reading Paul Scrabo's post above, the scene makes more sense. But I still would have loved having them had roll off a 1-liner or two, even if no slapstick was involved.

 

[Stefan Andersson]

Hi Paul --
thanks for replying to my previous post. Very interesting info about the trims making up the little old lady monologue.
Idea for a 50th anniversary disc: an onscreen pop-up trivia track identifying all the cameos. New viewers might appreciate basic info about some of the actors´ previous comedy work (Nick Stewart, ZaSu Pitts, Stan Freberg, Ben Lessy are examples that come to mind). And Roy Roberts is hard to spot (one of the patrolmen outside Ray & Irwin´s, right?).
Have you investigated other scenes included in the second draft screenplay? Scenes like:
Sylvester stealing the car,
the dialogue on the airport control tower (Howard Da Silva is sometimes credited as playing an airport officer),
the fight between the nervous man (Don Knotts) and a lady (Barbara Pepper?) in a phone booth,
the speech held by Joe E.Brown making it clear he is a union official,
the exposition dialogue in the police office with the reporter (Stanley Clements)
Were these scenes ever in the first release version? Or deleted before release? Do they exist as outtakes?
Mr. Harris -- thank you for the rundown of the editing history of the film.
Very interesting to follow the discussion for or against deleting the Tracy/Keaton dialogue. But if it was in the first release version, it should be in the restoration (if extant), to accurately represent the filmmakers´ vision at that point in time. Presenting both cuts via branching technology would be an attractive way of presenting the subsequent, now most widely known version. Easily explainable on a menu screen.
On a 50th anniversary disc, scenes with missing image or audio track could be presented as extras, with audio track playing over stills or presented as subtitles for audio-less image (à la Mr. Haver´s work on A Star is Born, or The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes DVD and LD extras), maybe with a "include when playing feature" option, for those fans who would like the original continuity to be presented as fully as possible.
The ImdB lists a cameo played by silent comedy star Minta Durfee -- anybody know if she appears in the version currently on DVD? My guess is she appears in a group shot, behind Adams, Merman and Provine, all watching the collapsing fire truck.
Mr. Kramer wrote in his autobiography that Jack Benny´s scene was shortened before release. Or maybe he means to refer to Keaton´s part?
Thanks for the FotoKem 65 mm/8K info. Maybe we´ll see new transfers of Khartoum, Star! and Can-Can. Hopefully The Last Valley will be an object for future restoration (if necessary). Not a 65mm production I believe, but a quite good film in the vein of the 65mm epics.