A Few Words About A few words about...™ Fox Cinema Archives - DVD (1 Viewer)

[Gary16]

Their black and white library is generally in better shape than color for the nitrate era, but some earlier films do have various problems.  Keep in mind that there have been various floods, fires, nitrate decamp, etc. even before the mass execution of elements. As to color, there are ways around some of the baked in problems, but those digital means are quite expensive, and probably not within MOD budgets. That said, Fox has a superb archival team, and when work does need to be performed, they're totally capable of doing so. All that seems out of sync is the selection of masters for MOD releases, as they don't seem to be chosen for either quality or content, but merely for title.  As I suggested earlier in this thread.  I'd consider it growing pains, and am certain that the program will get up to speed as far as quality quickly. RAH

What about the "20th Century Pictures" releases prior to the merger with FOX? I noticed TCM running "Folies Bergere de Paris" (1935) the other night complete with the original non-FOX searchlight open and it was in decent shape. Are all of those titles with the Fox library?

 

[JoHud]

They've been releasing 20th Century Pictures titles and Fox Films titles in the MOD program in 2012, though some of them are pretty poor picture quality-wise.

 

[Lromero1396]

They've been releasing 20th Century Pictures titles and Fox Films titles in the MOD program in 2012, though some of them are pretty poor picture quality-wise.

Random question: Have they all contained the original logos (the ones that you've seen, of course.)?

What about the "20th Century Pictures" releases prior to the merger with FOX? I noticed TCM running "Folies Bergere de Paris" (1935) the other night complete with the original non-FOX searchlight open and it was in decent shape. Are all of those titles with the Fox library?

I'd assume so. Many were reissued by Fox in the 1930's and '40s but with logos and title sequences altered, that's why I assume Fox has all of them.

 

[JoHud]

They all have a 20th Century Fox-fanfare opening logo beforehand, but I'm not sure if any original logo is missing. The title cards appear to be unchanged, but I could be wrong.

 

[JoeDoakes]

Zanuck must be weeping in his grave at what his decendants have done to his legacy. (He decreed that all TCF films under his regime would be done in CinemaSccope). Wasserman would be furious at the indifference of Universal to his historic purchase of the pre-1950 Paramount catalog. Fox and Universal have such ignorance.....even contempt...for their own histories that it is reflected in the crap that they put out now.

Universal has released an enormous amount of its Paramount holdings on DVD, and they have even done a good bit of restoration (e.g., Ministry of Fear). The Universal of today is much better at film appreciation than what existed when they (MCA) bought the Paramount library and promptly junked the original negatives.

 

[Lromero1396]

They all have a 20th Century Fox-fanfare opening logo beforehand, but I'm not sure if any original logo is missing. The title cards appear to be unchanged, but I could be wrong.

My bad, end title cards were changed in reissues by Fox. The main title cards were the same, but the 20th Century Pictures logo was replaced by a Fox logo in all reissue material.

 

[Gary16]

My bad, end title cards were changed in reissues by Fox. The main title cards were the same, but the 20th Century Pictures logo was replaced by a Fox logo in all reissue material.

Have you seen the recent release of "The Power and the Glory" with Spencer Tracy. The title cards are very strange. It's from 1933 but had a Twentieth-Fox copyright notice. Also looks like it was assembled from numerous sources.

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Gary16
Have you seen the recent release of "The Power and the Glory" with Spencer Tracy. The title cards are very strange. It's from 1933 but had a Twentieth-Fox copyright notice. Also looks like it was assembled from numerous sources.

Nothing wrong with assembled from bits and pieces, if that's all that survives.
RAH

 

[Gary16]

Nothing wrong with assembled from bits and pieces, if that's all that survives. RAH

I agree 100%. I was just making the comment since it was surprising that better elements apparently hadn't survived.

 

[Lromero1396]

I agree 100%. I was just making the comment since it was surprising that better elements apparently hadn't survived.

The Power and the Glory was once a lost film, so I'm not surprised it survived without its title sequence intact. The music in the title sequence doesn't mesh with what's in the first shot and the titles are not in period-accurate style. But so be it. I'm just happy to see that it still exists.

 

[JoHud]

True, though the MOD disc looks like an analog video transfer form the 1980s. It certainly could use a fresh transfer and some restoration work. The audio in particular is very poor.

 

[Lromero1396]

Despite this being an old thread, I though it worthwhile to post that Fox's next wave of MOD releases for this month are exclusively P&S and full frame. They still haven't gotten the message.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Despite this being an old thread, I though it worthwhile to post that Fox's next wave of MOD releases for this month are exclusively P&S and full frame. They still haven't gotten the message.

I'm not buying any of their MOD titles until they do get the message. Everybody else can do as they like with their monies.

 

[bujaki]

I stopped gambling with Fox MOD a long time ago.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I stopped gambling with Fox MOD a long time ago.

IMO, it's the one way for them to get the message as I continue to support Warner Archive for releasing their titles as intended by the filmmakers.

 

[jsteed]

I have never bought any Fox MOD titles mostly because of the issues with transfers on certain titles. I have bought many Warner Archive DVD's and hope Fox will eventually get up to the consistent quality of the WAC.

 

[Barrington]

As has been noted, anamorphic prints are marketed in other countries. I bought an excellent widescreen pressed dvd of Night People from Australia, plus 23 Paces To Baker Street. Koch in Germany has a very good From Hell To Texas. The Fox Movie Channel was running both versions of some post 53 films so why do they persist in releasing p&s junk?

 

[Lromero1396]

As has been noted, anamorphic prints are marketed in other countries. I bought an excellent widescreen pressed dvd of Night People from Australia, plus 23 Paces To Baker Street. Koch in Germany has a very good From Hell To Texas. The Fox Movie Channel was running both versions of some post 53 films so why do they persist in releasing p&s junk?

That question is impossible to accurately answer. There is absolutely no logic behind Fox's management of this program and I've given up hope on it altogether.

 

[Mark B]

Why would anyone wait for them to "get the message?" If they had one iota of concern for quality none of the garbage they've put on disc would be out there in the first place. They're not going to listen to random voices in a forum.

 

[Nick*Z]

I don't usually do this, but I'm going to repost a reply made elsewhere on this forum because I do believe it is extremely fitting to the topic being discussed. I think what we're all forgetting here is that the studios in totem, with very few exceptions, have very little interest in preserving their lesser known titles for the simple fact that they remain 'lesser known' through an absence of exposure over the years. It's chicken and egg really. The studio says there's no market for them because they haven't been marketed properly over the years and thus few know anything about them, even that they might exist at all.
I think the philosophy at Fox in particular has been skewed by a number of mitigating factors; first, the downturn in the economy that has really impacted the bottom line for catalogue titles - especially ones like Apartment for Peggy or Suez, great movies that just don't have a following. Fox ought to have put their best foot forward on this MOD program but alas they took the quick and dirty route; unwilling or unable to scour their own archives for whatever surviving elements currently exist. Old video masters don't cut it in today's market but failure to purchase what's being pumped out will only serve to reaffirm for the powers that be that there is NO afterlife for these movies.
The philosophy ought to be rethought, however, particularly since the studio's reputation has been built upon these great and glorious golden oldies. Personal opinion, of course, but nothing that ANY of the studios have put out in the last 20 years comes near to rivaling many of the titles featured in this MOD program in either performance or artistry, and certainly very few - if any - of the movies Fox has committed to celluloid since the year 2000 will be celebrating a 50th or 70th anniversary reissue in the future. Movies used to be an art as well as a business. Now they're mostly about clever marketing and that proverbial flash in the pan to rake in the millions on an opening weekend or two. That sort of marketing breeds nothing better than disposable entertainments - filler for the masses that leaves no indelible impression on the collective cultural consciousness of a generation.
There is a reason we are still talking about these classics with reverence and it has nothing - or at the very least - VERY little to do with our warm, fuzzy feeling for nostalgia and that all but forgotten ghost flower frequently referenced as 'golden Hollywood'. No, the movies on Fox's current MOD program are much beloved because they had - and continue to have - staying power. Once seen their images are burned into our minds. We relive the memory as part of our own and that says quite a lot about the integrity of the product itself.
I am not a fan of MOD DVD because in the long run it cheats the collector of seeing these great movies in a manner befitting their innate value as collected works of art. Warner's MOD program, as example, has simply become a dumping ground for a litany of home grown and MGM product that the studio feels will never have a shelf life beyond this disposable disc format. Fox has taken an even more laissez faire approach by cutting corners with regards to proper OAR and video mastering.
What's happening is rather scary, because one day not so very far off we will have lost the ability to go back to original masters (if, in fact any currently exist) or even be able to revisit second and third generation prints with any degree of salvaging what's left on the negative for future generations. Whole portions of Hollywood's past are in a perilous state of decay as restoration experts like Robert Harris can attest to. One day they simply will not exist at all and we will be stuck with lackluster, digitally combed, badly faded and out of sync copies of these movies as the only surviving points of reference. That's disheartening.
I have long been of the opinion that the studios en masse, in conjunction with the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, the Library of Congress, The AFI and the Film Foundation need to establish a collective fund for the preservation and restoration of EVERY home grown Hollywood motion picture currently still in existence in one form or another. At present every studio has this isolationist philosophy that they can do it on their own; keeping their movies under lock and key for fear that someone else will scoop them first and steal away their profit margin.
What this means is that vast libraries remain buried in vaults in a salt mine somewhere without - or with extremely little - hope of ever seeing the light of day. No, what the studios need to do is set aside their differences and join hands with the aforementioned major contributors and come up with a collective plan of action that includes all of the allocated moneys, time and effort going into one gigantic pot. At present none of these organizations works alongside the other. That needs to end and a meeting of the minds, as well as the creative brain trusts needs to take place to make this happen! NOW!
Then the studios need to decide on how best to market their films to today's audience in a way that will do justice to their histories and preserve them for hundreds of years yet to come. Restoration takes time and money - yes. But it's about time everyone got on board with the concept that movie art IS art - period. If we were talking about the Mona Lisa or the Last Supper and someone said, "well, it's just to expensive to fix...so let's just chuck the canvass in a backroom somewhere or repaint the wall in the chapel with a new painting"...art historians everywhere would be outraged and the public outcry would shatter the notion that we should simply throw out the old to make way for the new. Curiously, this same philosophy is not being applied to movie art. Somehow, it has become quite acceptable to ignore classics moldering with the past as mere relics to be dumped on the market in MOD programs without any care or thought for the original intent of the film makers.
Time and money are commodities that NEED to be spent to get movies looking as they did when we first saw them - period. Feasibility is always the trump card. Studios will say, "yes, that's a very nice 'pie in the sky notion' but it doesn't work in the real 'reel' world." My argument is as follows: there's always a way to make it work! I've given my way herein.
How would I do it. First, set up a meeting between all of the majors - each bringing to light their concerns with samples of their deteriorating catalogue on hand. At this meeting would be a plethora of restoration experts, plus a round up of film lovers like Spielberg and Scorsese, and investors with money to spend (the Bill Gates, The Trumps, the Warren Buffets...you get the picture). I would make the pitch that in neglecting movie art we are depriving our national heritage of a great and ongoing history and promote the cause of restoration as not merely something we should do because it is the right thing, but market it as a necessity for the future of art appreciation.
Then I would ask the various organizations to step up to the plate (the AFI, Film Foundation, et al) and act as financiers for the collective pool of managing one mass account dedicated to the restoration of these movies with an ongoing investment from the backers. I would also establish a film lover's pool - a contributor's market for people who are not millionaires but would agree that movies are an art and would like to help by sending in their contributions via a telethon of sorts. I would encourage networks to get behind the movement; Fox Movie, TCM, AMC etc. Do it the way PBS does their fund raising, offering call-in contributors memorabilia and other collectibles for their generous donations.
There's a lot more to this discussion that ought to be discussed, intelligently. I've used the Fox forum as my pulpit simply to prove two points: (1) that the current MOD program is quite insufficient and (2) that there is a better way to assure that these movies will be seen, respected, loved and treasured for many years to come. Someone at Fox said it takes roughly $10,000 to do new video masters. I think we can all agree that with the list of powerful studios, organizations and game plan I have put forth herein, we could easily raise at least $10 million for starters dedicated to the cause of salvaging America's national movie heritage, and this by tomorrow afternoon if everyone was on board. So, don't tell me it's too expensive to do what needs to be done! It can be done. It must be done. There. I've said my peace.