A Few Words About A few words about...™ Erin Brockovich -- in Blu-ray (2 Viewers)

[Todd Stout]

:EDIT: Criterion just sourced their version of Traffic from Universal, it is using the same master and looks the same.

The DVD Beaver review points out some slight differences between the Universal and Criterion Blu-ray releases of Traffic. The Universal release appears to be slightly sharper than the Criterion version.
The site offers an interesting comparison of the various DVD and Blu-ray releases. None of them appear to be quite the same as any of the others: http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdreviews20/traffic_dvd_review.htm

 

[Yorkshire]

Actually, Universal has been very forthcoming about how they handle the various projects.
While I may not agree with their overall philosophy, I do respect the intent.
This is not to say that I have to like the final products.
RAH

Many thanks - I think I agree with every word of that.
I love how film looks. But I just think it's wrong to sat that either SS or Universal 'don't care'. What you say is what I presumed - they have a philosophy, they have intent. The end result may not be what you or I prefer, but that's quite different to saying they don't care or don't have standards.
Steve W

 

[Yorkshire]

This is a bluray discussion board, this is the place where bluray transfers are discussed. Maybe you're in the wrong place?

No, Scott. I can't agree.
Not unless you're saying that people only watch their Blu-ray Discs for the look, and not for the film.
The day the discussion of a film released on Blu-ray Disc fails to discuss the film on the disc is the day we should all pack up and go home.
The discussion board will then be for people who would rather watch a superb-looking copy of Transformers to a poor transfer of The Godfather.
Steve W

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by Todd Stout /t/321413/a-few-words-about-erin-brockovich-in-blu-ray/30#post_3938708
The DVD Beaver review points out some slight differences between the Universal and Criterion Blu-ray releases of Traffic. The Universal release appears to be slightly sharper than the Criterion version.
The site offers an interesting comparison of the various DVD and Blu-ray releases. None of them appear to be quite the same as any of the others: http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdreviews20/traffic_dvd_review.htm

I never use DVDBeaver for comparisons, they aren't even using the same frame in some of those shots and that can have an effect on sharpness between the two versions.

I use this site below.

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/comparison.php?cID=972#auswahl

It looks identical to me, differences can be attributed to the different codecs used and they are tiny differences, if you wanted this film on Blu ray and didn't care about extra content then i'd buy the Universal over the Criterion as it's much cheaper.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Yorkshire /t/321413/a-few-words-about-erin-brockovich-in-blu-ray/30#post_3938756
No, Scott. I can't agree.
Not unless you're saying that people only watch their Blu-ray Discs for the look, and not for the film.
The day the discussion of a film released on Blu-ray Disc fails to discuss the film on the disc is the day we should all pack up and go home.
The discussion board will then be for people who would rather watch a superb-looking copy of Transformers to a poor transfer of The Godfather.
Steve W

I usually don't agree much with Scott, but he's right to a certain degree. This section of HTF is to discuss the video and audio presentation of BRDs. However, discussions can shift from talking about a video presentation to the movie itself. Where a discussion shifts to is dependent on the thread's participants. We try not to restrict the topic of discussions here, unless, we have to in order to resolve certain situations like highly emotional arguments or to better facilitate valued-added discussion.







Crawdaddy

 

[Yorkshire]

I usually don't agree much with Scott, but he's right to a certain degree.  This section of HTF is to discuss the video and audio presentation of BRDs.  However, discussions can shift from talking about a video presentation to the movie itself.  Where a discussion shifts to is dependent on the thread's participants.  We try not to restrict the topic of discussions here, unless, we have to in order to resolve certain situations like highly emotional arguments or to better facilitate valued-added discussion.
Crawdaddy

Cheers Robert.
I think the issue is that, if we limit discussion solely to one area, then it's inevitable that this one area of discussion will become disproportionate in people's minds.
Surely we're all here, we all came to AV, because we love films first and foremost.
Steve W

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by Yorkshire /t/321413/a-few-words-about-erin-brockovich-in-blu-ray/30#post_3938790
Cheers Robert.
I think the issue is that, if we limit discussion solely to one area, then it's inevitable that this one area of discussion will become disproportionate in people's minds.
Surely we're all here, we all came to AV, because we love films first and foremost.
Steve W

Yes but with Blu ray we can now replicate the filmed look in our own homes, when the studio messes with that look, degrades that look, well some of us get annoyed, so we discuss it, of course the film has to be very good otherwise we wouldn't get annoyed and start discussing the technical side of things, if for example the studio put out a poor release of Meet The Spartans ( i'm so down on that film ) then i doubt many would complain, when they mess up The Sting or The Longest Day, well they are true cinema classics and it annoys people.

As i previously mentioned to you, i have seen a lot of the films being released already, be it at the cinema, VHS, DVD, TV broadcasts etc etc, therefore buying a film on Blu ray is not essential unless i know it's fulfilling the potential it can and without a studio downgrading it's image to fit in with a pre-conceived idea that people want a smooth clean grain filtered look, i won't buy such a release, i may rent it at some point but never buy it. ( Edge enhancement also really irritates me )

I have no problem discussing the quality of a film, discussing it's plotlines, it's acting, the direction and cinematography, but i also like to discuss the Blu ray transfer and whether it's good, bad, average, but i would say it's almost certain that if you are in a thread of one of these films then it's because you like the film, therefore of course the transfer will be discussed if the reviewer has stated the studio has messed up in some way.

 

[cafink]

No, Scott. I can't agree.
Not unless you're saying that people only watch their Blu-ray Discs for the look, and not for the film.
The day the discussion of a film released on Blu-ray Disc fails to discuss the film on the disc is the day we should all pack up and go home.
The discussion board will then be for people who would rather watch a superb-looking copy of Transformers to a poor transfer of The Godfather.
Steve W

Re-read David's post, to which Scott was responding. He didn't merely say that it should be okay to discuss the movie itself in addition to the technichal details of the Blu-ray presentation. Rather, he criticized the whole discussion of the technical details, suggesting that it was no fun or otherwise not worth having.
Scott was wholly correct to suggest that the Movies forum, rather than the Blu-ray forum, is a more appropriate place for such a discussion. He didn't suggest that we couldn't talk about the movie itself here, just that someone who is interested ONLY in that subject is obviously in the wrong place.

 

[Yorkshire]

Yes but with Blu ray we can now replicate the filmed look in our own homes, when the studio messes with that look, degrades that look, well some of us get annoyed, so we discuss it...

Yes, agreed.
But often the look of the film is then discussed without any reference to the other factors, as if it were the only factor.
And (sorry, but we've gone off topic) this is intially a discussion about a director's right to present a Blu-ray Disc in a certain way.
So far, everything I've heard suggests SS wanted the Blu-ray Disc to look this way, or was at least happy for it to look this way.
In that instance, I do not consider the look to be 'degraded'.
Steve W

 

[Brandon Conway]

Originally Posted by Yorkshire /t/321413/a-few-words-about-erin-brockovich-in-blu-ray/30#post_3938803
Yes, agreed.
But often the look of the film is then discussed without any reference to the other factors, as if it were the only factor.
And (sorry, but we've gone off topic) this is intially a discussion about a director's right to present a Blu-ray Disc in a certain way.
So far, everything I've heard suggests SS wanted the Blu-ray Disc to look this way, or was at least happy for it to look this way.
In that instance, I do not consider the look to be 'degraded'.
Steve W

Well, that always brings up a fine line that varies from individual to individual re: a) how much are they willing to OK a filmmaker's right to alter a film's presentation, and b) at what point do they disagree enough with said filmmaker to not want to watch the altered version whatsoever.

For me, I always defend the right of the filmmaker, but whether I want to partake in the altered version is unique to every situation. For the cropping of The Last Emperor per Storaro & Bertolucci, I deal with it and watch the film, hoping for a non-cropped version some day; for Chaplin's The Gold Rush, I disregard the 1942 version since we're fortunate to have the reconstructed 1925; for Mann's The Last of the Mohicans, I prefer the theatrical, hated the Extended Cut, but was more than satisfied with the latest Director's Cut, which is closer to the Theatrical than the Extended, and I probably would not rebuy it even if the original cut was released; for Friedkin's The French Connection recoloring, I'm generally OK with it, but someday I'll probably pick up the re-issue with the original look.

Everyone's miles will vary.

 

[Todd Stout]

...if you wanted this film on Blu ray and didn't care about extra content then i'd buy the Universal over the Criterion as it's much cheaper.

I noticed that. Target now carries the Universal Blu-ray/DVD release for $7.99. I was actually considering picking up both the Universal and Criterion Blu-ray discs. They both look light years ahead of the original USA Home Entertainment DVD that I have. If they are the same, I may as well just get the Criterion version.

 

[Kevin EK]

I've watched the Blu of Erin Brockovich this past evening. It definitely looks a bit digital. There's some noticeable edge enhancement early on and some hard digital noise, which indicates that the image has been sharpened.

This isn't consistent. Some shots of Julia Roberts later in the movie do not have this problem. But there's enough of it for me to make a note for the review.

At the same time, I strongly believe that Steven Soderbergh saw and approved this transfer. Universal doesn't throw that kind of information around without regard.

And going back to Jurassic Park, yes, Steven Spielberg and Amblin approved everything about that Blu-ray.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by Kevin EK /t/321413/a-few-words-about-erin-brockovich-in-blu-ray/30#post_3939121
And going back to Jurassic Park, yes, Steven Spielberg and Amblin approved everything about that Blu-ray.

Do you have concrete proof of that because why on earth would Spielberg approve a blu ray release with edge enhancement in it, he never has in the past and i cannot think of one Spielberg film on blu ray that has edge enhancement on it other than Jurassic Park, i just don't buy it and i told you that last year, i think Spielberg approved the master and they manipulated that for the blu ray release.

If Spielberg approved it and it's a big if then i am very disappointed in him, the same for Soderbergh, disappointing if directors are approving of blu ray releases with some edge enhancement applied.

 

[Kevin EK]

I'm not sure what would constitute "concrete proof". If you're asking if I have photos of Spielberg looking at a screening of the Blu-ray and giving a thumbs-up, no. If you're asking if I have the statements we discussed last year - that Amblin and Spielberg were very much involved with the Blu-ray release, and had approved what was put on the Blu-ray, then yes. Given the importance of the movie to both Universal and Spielberg, there's no way this title (or Jaws or E.T.) would be released without a full blessing. We're not talking about a transfer of The Concorde: Airport '79.

As for Steven Soderbergh, I believe based on the varying nature of many of his movies and the various picture choices made therein, that he did see this new 2K transfer of Erin Brockovich and deemed it good for release. I'll explain further in my review.

And we should remember that Universal has released multiple Blu-rays of solid quality, especially this year. Including All Quiet on the Western Front, Psycho and Pillow Talk. Not every release is a miss. This time out, it's clear that a lower standard of care was applied. In the case of The Sting, it's clear that something went horribly wrong. I strongly doubt we will see the same to be the case with Jaws or E.T. And I will not pre-judge the Hitchcock Blus or the classic monster movies without having seen them. I want to give them the best possible consideration. If there's a problem, I'll make note of what I'm seeing. I'm hoping that they'll do better than that.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by Kevin EK /t/321413/a-few-words-about-erin-brockovich-in-blu-ray/30#post_3939129
I'm not sure what would constitute "concrete proof". If you're asking if I have photos of Spielberg looking at a screening of the Blu-ray and giving a thumbs-up, no. If you're asking if I have the statements we discussed last year - that Amblin and Spielberg were very much involved with the Blu-ray release, and had approved what was put on the Blu-ray, then yes. Given the importance of the movie to both Universal and Spielberg, there's no way this title (or Jaws or E.T.) would be released without a full blessing. We're not talking about a transfer of The Concorde: Airport '79.

As for Steven Soderbergh, I believe based on the varying nature of many of his movies and the various picture choices made therein, that he did see this new 2K transfer of Erin Brockovich and deemed it good for release. I'll explain further in my review.

And we should remember that Universal has released multiple Blu-rays of solid quality, especially this year. Including All Quiet on the Western Front, Psycho and Pillow Talk. Not every release is a miss. This time out, it's clear that a lower standard of care was applied. In the case of The Sting, it's clear that something went horribly wrong. I strongly doubt we will see the same to be the case with Jaws or E.T. And I will not pre-judge the Hitchcock Blus or the classic monster movies without having seen them. I want to give them the best possible consideration. If there's a problem, I'll make note of what I'm seeing. I'm hoping that they'll do better than that.

I just can't take seriously the notion that Spielberg approved an edge enhanced release, even if that edge enhancement is only visible on a dozen or so daytime scenes, this is the guy who was unhappy because of a minor audio synching issue in one scene on Saving Private Ryan, his standards are high, i doubt he would approve of Jurassic Park, i stand by that comment and nothing you can say short of printing a direct quote from Spieberg saying he approved it will make me change my mind.

As for Jaws and E.T. well let's wait and see.

:EDITED: I just don't wish to get into an argument at the weekend, thus editing post to remove some references. ( just saying for those that saw the post pre-edit )

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Kevin EK /t/321413/a-few-words-about-erin-brockovich-in-blu-ray/30#post_3939129
I'm not sure what would constitute "concrete proof". If you're asking if I have photos of Spielberg looking at a screening of the Blu-ray and giving a thumbs-up, no. If you're asking if I have the statements we discussed last year - that Amblin and Spielberg were very much involved with the Blu-ray release, and had approved what was put on the Blu-ray, then yes. Given the importance of the movie to both Universal and Spielberg, there's no way this title (or Jaws or E.T.) would be released without a full blessing. We're not talking about a transfer of The Concorde: Airport '79.

As for Steven Soderbergh, I believe based on the varying nature of many of his movies and the various picture choices made therein, that he did see this new 2K transfer of Erin Brockovich and deemed it good for release. I'll explain further in my review.

And we should remember that Universal has released multiple Blu-rays of solid quality, especially this year. Including All Quiet on the Western Front, Psycho and Pillow Talk. Not every release is a miss. This time out, it's clear that a lower standard of care was applied. In the case of The Sting, it's clear that something went horribly wrong. I strongly doubt we will see the same to be the case with Jaws or E.T. And I will not pre-judge the Hitchcock Blus or the classic monster movies without having seen them. I want to give them the best possible consideration. If there's a problem, I'll make note of what I'm seeing. I'm hoping that they'll do better than that.

My, you start your day early.

My general perception of "director approved," may well be that they saw and approved an HD-CAM, that would have been the basis for the Blu-ray, but possibly not before final down-rez...

and tinkering.

RAH

 

[Scott Calvert]

I'm not sure what would constitute "concrete proof".  If you're asking if I have photos of Spielberg looking at a screening of the Blu-ray and giving a thumbs-up, no.  If you're asking if I have the statements we discussed last year - that Amblin and Spielberg were very much involved with the Blu-ray release, and had approved what was put on the Blu-ray, then yes.  Given the importance of the movie to both Universal and Spielberg, there's no way this title (or Jaws or E.T.) would be released without a full blessing.  We're not talking about a transfer of The Concorde: Airport '79.
As for Steven Soderbergh, I believe based on the varying nature of many of his movies and the various picture choices made therein, that he did see this new 2K transfer of Erin Brockovich and deemed it good for release.   I'll explain further in my review.
And we should remember that Universal has released multiple Blu-rays of solid quality, especially this year.  Including All Quiet on the Western Front, Psycho and Pillow Talk.  Not every release is a miss.  This time out, it's clear that a lower standard of care was applied.  In the case of The Sting, it's clear that something went horribly wrong.  I strongly doubt we will see the same to be the case with Jaws or E.T.  And I will not pre-judge the Hitchcock Blus or the classic monster movies without having seen them.  I want to give them the best possible consideration.  If there's a problem, I'll make note of what I'm seeing.  I'm hoping that they'll do better than that.

I haven't seen All Quiet or Pillow Talk, but Psycho ain't that great. It looks "nice" I guess, but it's the most electronic-looking B&W film I have seen on BD.
EDIT: regarding my comment about B&W on BD, I take that back. The Longest Day is much worse. Still, I'm not a big fan of the way Psycho looks on this disc.

 

[Kevin EK]

Malcolm, we'll agree to disagree as we did last year. Having already had that discussion thoroughly, I think we've made our points, and other forum readers can make their own decisions.

Scott, I think we're all aware of your opinions about Universal releases, and I won't try to dissuade you here. Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

While it's clear that a Soderbergh film got a cursory 2K transfer with the problems we're noting, and that Soderbergh did not raise an objection to that, I would find it impossible to believe that one of the big Spielberg movies would get such a treatment, or that Spielberg and his people would allow that to happen. A movie like Jaws or E.T. is considered a crown jewel. A movie like Erin Brockovich is considered to be a good, solid piece of work, but it's not the same thing. We can certainly argue that better care should have been taken, and we can certainly make the point that one would wonder why Soderbergh didn't make an issue out of it.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by Scott Calvert /t/321413/a-few-words-about-erin-brockovich-in-blu-ray/30#post_3939163
I haven't seen All Quiet or Pillow Talk, but Psycho ain't that great. It looks "nice" I guess, but it's the most electronic-looking B&W film I have seen on BD.

Meet Joe Black is the latest Universal casualty, too much edge enhancement, i will praise Universal when they do it right, but they do get it wrong more than any other major studio when it comes to their back catalog titles.

Talking about back catalog releases, is Paramount releasing any of their classics at all. ?

 

[RKR1970]

My, you start your day early.
My general perception of "director approved," may well be that they saw and approved an HD-CAM, that would have been the basis for the Blu-ray, but possibly not before final down-rez...
and tinkering.
RAH

Some filmmakers will review and sign off on the final compression of the Blu-ray. Spielberg is, or someone on his staff gives that approval before the disc is moved into replication.