A Few Words About A few words about...™ Blade Runner -- in HD & BD

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Robert Harris, Dec 16, 2007.

  1. Paul_Scott

    Paul_Scott Lead Actor

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    that's why, as much as I enjoyed my viewing of the FC last week, I'm hesitant to keeping dipping into the set this soon. I didn't have enough time for another movie the other night, which is the only reason I watched part of the doc at this point. When I was a kid I could stay in the theater and watch 3 showings of a movie in a single day- Now I'm very wary of getting burned out on a film- which can easily happen if I watch it even twice in the same year.

    It's likely going to be at least six months before I watch any of the other versions...probably longer.
    Next time I'll cue up the Int Cut. There is definitely value in some of the information contained in the narration- though it was very funny to see Darabont go off on it's use in the climax.
     
  2. Douglas Monce

    Douglas Monce Producer

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    The problem that I have with the final narration that was used is that it's so badly written, and its obvious that Ford doesn't want to be there reading it. He talks in the documentary about doing that final narration, and how the guy who wrote it was someone he had never seen before and had no idea who he was. Ridley Scott was no where to be seen and he had no direction at all.

    The narration tells you about the plot, and in a rather ham fisted way. It tells me that he had a wife and that she left him because he was cold. Well I don't need to know that he had a wife because it never comes up in the theatrical cut. In the final cut all we need is to see the photograph. And I don't need them to tell me that he is cold because I get that from Ford's performance.

    The reason that the narration works so well in a film like Murder, My Sweet is because its a little slice of Chandler. It gives you a little bit of Marlowe's take on the world around him, and does it in an amusing way.

    I think the first narration used in the out takes has more of that noir mood and works 100% better, but is still probably not needed.

    Doug
     
  3. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    I watched this on BluRay and it is truly spectacular.
     
  4. Jim_K

    Jim_K Executive Producer

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    Well I watched the Final cut, then the International version back to back last night. I think the perfect Blade Runner cut will forever be out of my grasp.

    On the Final cut I did like the re-do of Zhora's stunt double, the re-do of the release of the dove and the added narration about the each of the replicants by Bryant (though later in the scene most of the same info is repeated by Bryant, now that's a guffaw).

    What I didn't like was the Unicorn scene still intact (inferring Deckard is a replicant.) and some of the changes in dialog (Roy's line of "I want more life Fucker" changed to "I want more life Father" ugh)

    The International cut has the VO which I grew up on, no Unicorn scene [​IMG] but has that stupid happy ending in the mountains [​IMG] (I prefer the ambiguous cut to black ending in the elevator).

    Very nice set. Having all the versions available in one collection is the greatest "bonus feature" for me. The only qualm I have is no lossless audio on the other cuts (aside from the Final cut).
     
  5. temproh

    temproh Auditioning

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    Interesting read.
     
  6. Chuck Mayer

    Chuck Mayer Lead Actor

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    I was thrilled by the DD doc. Having all of that anecdotal experience in one sitting was mesmerizing. I have a limited history with the film myself, only recently (in the last few years) coming to appreciate the thematic elements of the film. I first saw it on VHS or cable with narration. I was young, and it was a cold film without an action finale, and I couldn't make it fit into my adolescent pre-conceptions of sci-fi [​IMG] I did see the "DC" several years later, and it seemed the same film to me. I did no research on the film, nor did I have any awareness of it's storied and tortured history.

    I finally gave it a real viewing with the 2006 release of the DC, and was well rewarded for my time. I have, through my time at HTF, become somewhat more familiar with the legalities (the long-running thread in Software will educate anyone [​IMG] ). So, with no trepidation, I happily purchased the Blu Ray suitcase. The first thing I delved into was Dangerous Days, and it was a long watch, but fantastic. Blade Runner is on a very short list of truly visionary films, so seeing it's inception through rebirth was fascinating, especially from the variety of viewpoints.

    I did sample the FC, just to see the ending and some select scenes, and it looks fantastic. Can't wait to watch each of the cuts at this point. I like the idea of starting with the workprint, then the international, then the theatrical, then the 1992 cut, and THEN the FC. But I'll definitely spread them out.

    It's a marvelous SE, a new standard really, building on the Criterion Brazil concept of showcasing all released cuts.
     
  7. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

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    Finally received my BD set yesterday and watched the Final Cut. Excellent presentation, and very glad I made the jump and opted for an HDM set, instead of SD DVD though I'm sure the SD version is also very good as reported by others.

    I didn't really miss the voiceover, but then again, I'm not completely new to the film even though I'm kinda like Chuck above and did not grow to appreciate it until recent years. Need to find some time to check out the rest of the set, especially the Dangerous Days doc.

    _Man_
     
  8. Carlo Medina

    Carlo Medina Executive Producer

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    For the record, I had no problem with the changes in the FC. To me (and I'm no puritan, I can swear like a sailor) the change from f*#ker to father was even more poignant, as it shows Roy acknowledging him as such right before...you know. Although I also like the version that was alluded to in Dangerous Days [written but never filmed] where Tyrell would be another replicant and the father was really in another level, already dead 4 years.
     
  9. Jefferson Morris

    Jefferson Morris Supporting Actor

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    I must say I found the VO in the outtakes appalling--tediously and needlessly explaining every plot detail. I thought it was so bad, it actually made the VO in the theatrical version sound almost brilliant in comparison. And I dislike that VO too.

    I can appreciate that some have a sentimental fondness for the theatrical version's VO. But I feel Blade Runner is simply moodier, more mysterious and altogether better without it. I mean, isn't it wonderful just to be able to luxuriate in Vangelis's music during Deckard's first spinner ride, without the words mucking it up? My opinion, anyhow.

    Allow me to belatedly add my kudos for Charlie de L. and everyone else who worked on this remarkable set. It seemed almost impossible that it would meet expectations after all the years of waiting, but it did, and then some. Now let's see a high-def version of the Legend director's cut, eh?

    --Jefferson Morris
     
  10. John H Ross

    John H Ross Screenwriter

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  11. Douglas Monce

    Douglas Monce Producer

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    This is a repeat of what I posted in the Blade Runner SE thread.

    If you watch the Dangerous Days documentary you will find out that there was no complete sound track for any of the versions. Each cut of the film had SOME sound elements missing from the original sound stems. Some of them even had blank sections in the middle of an other wise normal track. This required the sound editors to make a new track using all existing elements and actually recording some new elements.

    So it's not surprising that you will hear bits from different versions of the film.

    Doug
     
  12. David_B_K

    David_B_K Advanced Member

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    I agree that the VO in the outtakes was amazingly wordy. It was almost like watching Chaplin's VO version of The Gold Rush, as Ford seemed to be providing ALL the dialog. Zhora apparenly was going to have no dialog at all; just Deckard telling us what she said. It was like a monolog with visual accompaniment.

    It was also interesting that in the outtakes VO Deckard referred to the replicants as "skin jobs", a phrase he eschewed in the final VO. It made Deckard seem more hard boiled, but I suppose that since Deckard undergoes something akin to an epiphany in the film, he would not use the epithet in a retelling of his story.

    I like the fact that they included so many versions. I think I like the Int'l Cut with the VO the best. The VO does not sound bad at all to me. I guess I watched the Criterion LD of it so many times it grew on me. As to Ford's distate for the VO, it was far from clear to me if he meant the VO they did not use, or the final VO, or the very idea of the VO. I also will occasionally watch the FC. I also think the VO is a bit obtrusive in that spinner ride.

    I also liked not seeing the unicorn in theatrical cuts. Too bad there was not a recut of the Int'l cut with the last scene removed. I could have done without the 1992 DC for such a cut.
     
  13. John H Ross

    John H Ross Screenwriter

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    Ummm... see my response on the other thread.
     
  14. Jefferson Morris

    Jefferson Morris Supporting Actor

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    Yeah, I agree that it mars the otherwise great DC/FC.

    I'm not a fan of the Deck-a-rep idea. But it was interesting to see in the outtakes how much further they might have pushed the idea, with Gaff saying, "You've done a man's job, sir. But are you a man?" and Rachel pointedly telling Deckard she thinks they were "made for each other." Fascinating stuff (that I'm very glad was left out).

    --Jefferson Morris
     
  15. Douglas Monce

    Douglas Monce Producer

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    Yeah John I saw that. I hadn't had the chance to watch the directors cut yet, so I put it in last night.

    The "if I didn't care" music at the start of the film is much more audible in the DC because it seems to be coming from the rear channels, however if you put headphones on you can actually hear it ever so faintly in the original theatrical cut too. And even at this point I'm not totally sure that it is "if I didn't care" or some other sound that happens to be more or less in the same key.

    I'm not sure what the deal is with the Kowalski, and the strange bit of the work print love scene music.

    The end where you can start to hear the happy ending music is clearly an issue with this being a branched version.

    Again I'm not too sure what the deal is with this other than the fact that the Directors Cut was rushed and who knows if the sound for that mix even survived in a form that could be used for a new sound mix. What is on this set maybe a hybrid sound track because they couldn't find the sound stems for the Director's Cut.

    Doug
     
  16. Douglas Monce

    Douglas Monce Producer

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    Also the idea that even Tyrell was a replicant. It almost gets to the point of a 70s sci-fi film where you start to wonder if anyone on Earth is still human, or are they all replicants.

    Doug
     
  17. Felix Martinez

    Felix Martinez Screenwriter

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    Yeah, it gets kinda ridiculous. There was a time when the whole "is Deckard a replicant?" thing was intriguing to me. I find it kinda cheesy now. The idea of a human losing/rediscovering his humanity is ultimately more compelling and satisfying to me. The Final Cut is my preferred version - I just partially close my eyes during the unicorn scene [​IMG]
     
  18. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
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    in a long post a typed in last night that got zotzed by the back button, i mentioned that i don;t like the deck is a rep idea.

    it becomes a distraction for me while watching the new cut.
    seems to have caused a distraction to ridley scott too.
    it's as if he was going out of his way just to make it certain to everyone that deck is a replicant.
     
  19. PaulDA

    PaulDA Cinematographer

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    Just watched The Final Cut on HD DVD (after a successful and uneventful firmware update--the horror stories out there about updating firmware had me worried, but I digress). Popped in my copy of the DC SD DVD to compare and all I can say is WOW. [​IMG] I've now watched five HD DVDs (Space Cowboys, Serenity, Unforgiven, The Fountain and Blade Runner: The Final Cut--I have two small children, not enough time to play with my toys [​IMG]) Serenity was the first one I watched (rented it and did an A/B comparison with my SD copy). As I noted elsewhere in greater detail, I saw improvements but not enough to make me want to upgrade the disc at its current price. My PJ's video processor is quite good, so the difference was not night and day. The others, save Blade Runner, are films I've seen in SD (though I do not own any SD versions of them) so I can say they looked great but I cannot say what an A/B would reveal. But Blade Runner in SD is not even close. When I want to impress people with HDM, this is the film (for now) I will use to make the comparison. There is no way that anyone can say "meh". The PQ is outstanding (I even don't mind the unicorn [​IMG] ) and the audio is excellent given the original source material. I have yet to officially "double dip" with SD DVD (I consider this HD set to be more than just a hi-def version of the SD DVD, so I don't consider this a "double dip") but there are a few select titles on my shelf that may get upgraded a bit sooner than I'd anticipated if I can find others where the difference is this pronounced. I would be happy with this purchase even if all I got was a single disc version of The Final Cut w/o extras. That it is such a complete package is icing (very tasty icing, to be sure) on the cake.
     
  20. Jose Martinez

    Jose Martinez Screenwriter

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    I just saw the following from Warner. Does anyone have this particular error, and if so, anyway to find out without opening the shrink wrap? I just ordered mine from Amazon but haven't received it yet.

    January 16th, 2008
    Blade Runner 5-Disc (Blu-ray) Complete Collector’s Edition
    Blade Runner 5-Disc (Blu-ray) Ultimate Collector’s Edition
    (Product Error Notice)
    Warner Home Video has discovered that a small number of Blade Runner 5-Disc Ultimate
    Collector’s Edition Briefcase Giftsets (catalog #1000027119) and Blade Runner 5-Disc Complete
    Collector’s Editions (catalog #1000027121) in the Blu-ray format may contain an incorrect Disc #5
    labeled The Work Print. In some cases Disc #5 does not have the work print content but rather the
    content of Blade Runner The Final Cut which is already included in the collector’s set as Disc #1.
    The only way to recognize the error is for the consumer to play Disc #5 and go to the Special
    Features page. If they see one commentary track by Paul M. Sammon the disc is correct. If they
    see three commentary tracks, then they have an incorrect disc, and thus qualify to receive a correct
    replacement Blu-ray Disc #5.
    Warner Home Video has taken immediate steps to correct this unintentional error.
    Should you experience consumer complaints regarding the Blu-ray Disc #5 content issue mentioned
    above, please direct the consumer to call 1-888-603-8888. They will be asked to provide their
    name, address and telephone number so that Warner Home Video can send them the correct Blu-ray
    BD Disc #5 (DVD) of The Work Print at no charge.
    We extend our apology for this unfortunate manufacturing error and will execute consumer
    replacement requests as swiftly as possible. Should you have any questions, please contact your
    Warner Home Video Sales Representative for assistance.
    Sincerely,
    Brian Blazik
    Director of Sales Communications
    Warner Home Video (Canada)
     

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