A Few Words About A few words about...™ Barry Lyndon -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Woppet]

The technical term for this matting on the sides is "pillarboxing," as the mattes look like pillars on the sides of the image.
The process Stephen_J_H described, which results in matting on all 4 sides of the film frame, is called windowboxing, although typically the image ends up looking pillarboxed on a WS theater screen.

Wrong. "Pillarboxing" only refers to thick bars when the image is academy ratio (1.37:1 or narrower), not matted. A film matted at 1.66:1 would be "windowboxed" (A Clockwork Orange) and a 1.37:1 with black bars on all four sides would be pictureboxed (Criterion academy ratio SD DVD's).

 

[Doctorossi]

Wrong. "Pillarboxing" only refers to thick bars when the image is academy ratio (1.37:1 or narrower), not matted. A film matted at 1.66:1 would be "windowboxed" (A Clockwork Orange) and a 1.37:1 with black bars on all four sides would be pictureboxed (Criterion academy ratio SD DVD's).

I'm not sure where you're getting these definitions, but they don't match my anecdotal experience.

 

[JoshZ]

Wrong. "Pillarboxing" only refers to thick bars when the image is academy ratio (1.37:1 or narrower), not matted. A film matted at 1.66:1 would be "windowboxed" (A Clockwork Orange) and a 1.37:1 with black bars on all four sides would be pictureboxed (Criterion academy ratio SD DVD's).

A movie that has black bars only on the sides, but not the top and bottom, is "pillarboxed," because the vertical bars resemble pillars. This is regardless of the actual aspect ratio of the image, whether Academy 1.37:1, 1.66:1 or some other shape.
A movie with black bars on all four sides is "windowboxed," because it looks like the image is inset like a window in a wall. ("Pictureboxed" is sometimes used to mean the same thing. Bars on all four sides.)
A Clockwork Orange would only be termed "windowboxed" on the non-anamorphic DVD edition. That has nothing to do with the aspect ratio being 1.66:1. It's entirely because the non-anamorphic encoding results in the movie appearing in the middle of an HDTV screen with black bars on all four sides.

 

[Jay G.]

Originally Posted by Woppet /t/311684/a-few-words-about-barry-lyndon-in-blu-ray/150#post_4013285
Wrong. "Pillarboxing" only refers to thick bars when the image is academy ratio (1.37:1 or narrower), not matted. A film matted at 1.66:1 would be "windowboxed" (A Clockwork Orange) and a 1.37:1 with black bars on all four sides would be pictureboxed (Criterion academy ratio SD DVD's).

First off, when discussing specific aspect ratios and how they're presented, it's important to note what it's being presented on. A 1.37:1 film is going to be presented a different way on a 35mm print for theatrical screening than it is going to presented on a Blu-ray for home video.

In general though, the terms letterboxing, pillarboxing, windowboxing and pictureboxing refer to the placement of any matting (i.e "black bars") on the media. Letterboxing is well known as horizontal matting on the top and bottom when the image is wider than the media. Pillarboxing is less known, but is becoming more common, and is the vertical matting on the sides when an image is narrower than the media. Windowboxing and Pictureboxing are interchangeable terms, both meaning when there's matting on all four sides of the image.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letterboxing_(filming)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillarbox
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letterboxing_(filming)#Pillarboxing_and_windowboxing
http://www.criterionforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3895&sid=c032b9f40c298e9cfd91599889e392bf


For a Blu-ray displayed on a 16:9 HDTV, any aspect ratio narrower than 1.77:1 (like 1.66:1, 1.37:1 and 1.33:1) will have to be pillarboxed to retain the correct image. For wider aspect ratios (like scope 2.35:1 or 2.40:1, or even 1.85:1), they have to be letterboxed. There is the potential for any of these aspect ratios (even 1.77:1) to be windowboxed if either transferred incorrectly or done deliberately to offset overscan.

For DVDs, it's more complicated due to the anamorphic enhancement option, and whether you're viewing on a 4:3 or 16:9 TV. A 1.66:1 film could be letterboxed (non-anamorphic, 4:3 TV), pillarboxed (anamorphic, 16:9 TV), or windowboxed (non-anamorphic on a 16:9, or anamorphic on a 4:3). As pointed out, a 1.37 film on a non-anamorphic DVD on a 4:3 TV could be windowboxed to counter overscan (which might not even be noticeable if the windowboxing is equal to or less than the amount of overscan on the TV).

For film, it's also complicated, but for different reasons. To go back to DeeF's question, nowadays a print of Barry Lyndon could be made that places a pillarboxed 1.66:1 image into the normally 1.85:1 viewing area, which is already letterboxed from the full 1.37:1 film frame, making the resultant image windowboxed in the full film frame. As Stephen_J_H pointed out, some 1.37:1 films are released this way due to limitations in modern film projection equipment. It's not ideal, however, since a 1.66:1 image fits best letterboxed into the 1.37:1 film frame, giving the most film resolution for the image.

 

[Mike Frezon]

...nowadays a print of Barry Lyndon could be made that places a pillarboxed 1.66:1 image into the normally 1.85:1 viewing area, which is already letterboxed from the full 1.37:1 film frame, making the resultant image windowboxed in the full film frame.

THAT is one of the best sentences I've read on the HTF in many a year!

The incredible thing is...I actually understand it!

 

[Rachael B]

THAT is one of the best sentences I've read on the HTF in many a year!  :tu:
The incredible thing is...I actually understand it! 

It is a whopper of a sentence, aye. The only way it could of been better would of been if some fun words like redundant, recanted, or bonnaroo could of been squeezed in there, somewhere.
I understood the sentence. Comprehending it is another thingie!

 

[Jim*Tod]

Given that most of Kubrick's films have now been released on 4K disc, is BARRY LYNDON on 4K a possibility? Even if the film itself, given the way it was shot, is not fully 4K, certainly HDR or Dolby Vision carefully applied would be an upgrade. Thoughts? Rumors?

 

[ahollis]

Nope, not yet.

 

[titch]

Given that most of Kubrick's films have now been released on 4K disc, is BARRY LYNDON on 4K a possibility? Even if the film itself, given the way it was shot, is not fully 4K, certainly HDR or Dolby Vision carefully applied would be an upgrade. Thoughts? Rumors?

The death of Leon Vitali last year could mean that Warner Bros. have lost the impetus for releasing their two remaining Kubricks on 4K UHD. He was a driver for getting four Warner Bros. Kubricks restored and released. Warner Bros. released only a paltry number of classic films this year on 4K UHD, their centenary. However, there's always hope for a Kino Lorber 4K UHD of Lolita. It's not Barry Lyndon, but still.

 

[JPCinema]

Lolita (1962) is owned by Warners. Kino has never released a Warners title

 

[titch]

Lolita (1962) is owned by Warners. Kino has never released a Warners title

Ah - that's right. I was thinking of the MGM/UA LaserDisc. Old Man Syndrome. And thus extremely unlikely that this will be released on a Warner Bros. 4K UHD. They've barely released any black and white classics on 4K UHD, let alone something that isn't universally adored.

 

[owen35]

The death of Leon Vitali last year could mean that Warner Bros. have lost the impetus for releasing their two remaining Kubricks on 4K UHD. He was a driver for getting four Warner Bros. Kubricks restored and released. Warner Bros. released only a paltry number of classic films this year on 4K UHD, their centenary. However, there's always hope for a Kino Lorber 4K UHD of Lolita. It's not Barry Lyndon, but still.

Does Criterion still hold the rights for releasing this on physical media? It's possible they could make a 4K UHD release happen.

I also think I read somewhere that Vitali finished mastering all the films before he passed away. They were spacing out the releases, not waiting for him to finish his work. I really hope it does happen. Barry Lyndon is a film that continues to grow on me with each viewing.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

I do question the wisdom of releasing Barry Lyndon on UHD 4K disc. A 4K harvest? Absolutely. 4K of resolution? Debatable. Colour enhancement via HDR? Maybe.

 

[SD_Brian]

Ah - that's right. I was thinking of the MGM/UA LaserDisc. Old Man Syndrome. And thus extremely unlikely that this will be released on a Warner Bros. 4K UHD. They've barely released any black and white classics on 4K UHD, let alone something that isn't universally adored.

Warner seems to have opened their minds about licensing things to Criterion lately, so Lolita and Barry Lyndon may eventually see UHD releases there.