70mm film transfer to bluray using SmileBox simulated curved screen

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by bdzmusicprod, Nov 14, 2012.

  1. bdzmusicprod

    bdzmusicprod Auditioning

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    Is there anyone out there who may know if there are any plans to convert any of the large film format movies filmed in Todd-Ao, Super and Ultra Panavision to the simulated curved screen SmileBox format as many of them were intended to be shown on a curved screen?:)
     
  2. Moe Dickstein

    Moe Dickstein Filmmaker

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    I doubt it. Cinerama is the only process that had inherent geometric distortion introduced when shown on flat TV screens.
    Warping Todd-AO or other types of 70mm productions would just leave you a distorted picture
     
  3. Dick

    Dick Producer

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    Yeah. The 192-minute laser disc of IT'S A MAD, MAD, MAD WORLD is a good example of distortion. The Super Panavision image had to be rectified (modified with a graduated squeeze from the center to the left and right edges) in order for it to show properly -- in focus edge to edge -- on a curved screen. The material that was added to the laser on top of the general theatrical edition of 154 minutes showed this effect, as it had not been corrected for insertion into that release. They would essentially have to do the opposite for Smilebox releases of single-camera films in order to create the "Cinerama" effect, or just hard matte the shape over the image, which would crop a huge portion of the picture out. Big expense, and not worth it, for these were never true Cinerama presentations to begin with, in spite of the logo carry-over.
     
  4. bdzmusicprod

    bdzmusicprod Auditioning

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    I watched a documentary about the filming of Oklahoma in Todd-Ao which was initially created as "Cinerama out of one hole". They used a 120 degree "bug-eye" lens for wide shots but only sparingly in the first Todd-Ao presentation. To demonstrate the effect the SmileBox simulated curved screen was employed to recreate what the audiences saw. In the Cinerama Adventure documentary SmileBox curved screen simulation was used to demonstrate what the 70mm "Cinerama" films looked like. They used It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World and 2001 A Space Odyssey as examples. I thought that the effect was very good even though these films were not "true" Cinerama presentations. My feeling is that why not recreate the effect intended when they were first released as "Cinerama" films to theaters showing 70mm Cinerama films. Another example of a 70mm "Cinerama" presentation was when a local Cinema that had been equipped to show 70mm Cinerama films had a brief showing of Around the World In Eighty Days and presented it in Cinerama although it was in truth filmed in Todd-Ao. One film historian noted that a Cinerama theater could in fact present a 70mm film "in Cinerama" provided they pay a fee to Cinerama to present it as such. I have seen a 70mm blowup of Fiddler On The Roof presented in Cinerama on the Cinerama screen...it looked pretty good. I also saw a 70mm Todd-Ao presentation of Hello Dolly on the same screen and it too looked good. I am aware of the purist viewpoint of true Cinerama fans but I still think that it would be very cool to present some of these films for home viewing using the SmileBox simulated curved screen process to at least give people an opportunity to see what these films looked like in "faux" Cinerama.:)
     
  5. JamesNelson

    JamesNelson Second Unit

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    What I would really like to see is for someone to produce a 3-D BD version of the SmileBox process, wherein the left and right edges of the virtual screen appear physically closer to the viewer then the center. That would be an interesting experiment and would go farther in recreating the Cinerama experience.
     
  6. Moe Dickstein

    Moe Dickstein Filmmaker

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    It's not about being a purist, its about the fact that these images would be warped and distorted if you did that.
    I can't imagine more than a handful of people wanting that so why would anyone take the time and expense to do something like that?
    Do you also like to stretch out 4x3 stuff out to fill the 16:9 tv? that's some warping and distorting too...
     
  7. bdzmusicprod

    bdzmusicprod Auditioning

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    I own a 60" Panasonic 3D tv. Watching a SmileBox curved screen simulation I have utilized the simulated 3D effect and the curved screen appears to be coming out of the wall of your viewing room making it appear that you have a virtual curved screen in your viewing room. The effect is best in a darkened room. The simulated 3D effect is ok for the movie. Red objects especially appear disjointed. But one has to remember...it is a "simulated" effect. I especially enjoyed the runaway train sequence in How The West Was Won with simulated 3D. :)
     
  8. bdzmusicprod

    bdzmusicprod Auditioning

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    [SIZE]I am against stretching 4:3 out to 16:9 on a TV. This has nothing to do with converting 70mm to SmileBox curved screen simulation. Take the time to watch Cinerama Adventure documentary and you will see examples of not only true Cinerama films in a curved screen format but also 70mm "Cinerama" films being displayed this way. :)[/SIZE]
     
  9. Moe Dickstein

    Moe Dickstein Filmmaker

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    I understand what you are saying - but those are merely clips for demonstration. Nobody would ever encode and release a non 3-strip film to be watched that way.
     
  10. bdzmusicprod

    bdzmusicprod Auditioning

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    You're right...most people really don't care how a film is shown. The thing that really matters is if the film is any good. I enjoy watching High Noon on bluray in b&w, 4:3 ratio, monophonic sound over the bluray release of This Is Cinerama. No offense intended to David Strohmeier or anyone else but it's novel to watch but compared to a good story in b&w I'll choose a good story. Thank you for your comments!
     
  11. Jim*Tod

    Jim*Tod Second Unit

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    Why not just a smilebox mode built into the blu ray player or tv... maybe with some adjustments for depth of the curve? Then the user decide how they wanted it to look. That said I think HOW THE WEST WAS WON and THIS IS CINERAMA in Smilebox on my tv (only a 50" plasma) is actually pretty effective and I have seen both in true three projector Cinerama.
     
  12. Moe Dickstein

    Moe Dickstein Filmmaker

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    Maybe a colorization button too so the user can determine if the movie should be in black and white or color.
     
  13. Brian McP

    Brian McP Second Unit

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    I agree with leaving the movie's in their original formats -- but this thread gets me thinking -- can one build a curved screen in their own home theatre?
    I think the curve was something like 146 degrees, but what would be the logistics of building such a screen in a home theatre and then playing Smilebox features and have them 'fit' one's actual screen? My apologies if there is a company out there that actually does this -- but I think playing such large format movies like "Khartoum" or "Grand Prix", even the 1973 "Lost Horizon" on such a screen might get the effect that Brian spoke of in #1 of this topic.
     
  14. Moe Dickstein

    Moe Dickstein Filmmaker

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    If you had an actual curved screen, you'd project the non smilebox onto it to get the correct geometry.
     
  15. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
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    Even more difficult. For a curved screen, you'd want a fully rectified anamorphic image, projected spherically, allowing the screen to unsqueeze the image.
    RAH
     
  16. Moe Dickstein

    Moe Dickstein Filmmaker

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    Finally a use for the old Mad World Laserdisc!
     
  17. antoniobiz1

    antoniobiz1 Stunt Coordinator

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    Actually, not that difficult (provided you use an HTPC), and part of my upcoming project .
    This program here can morph your picture as you want it in real time, and works with one or more displays, flat or curved. So if you have a curved display you can rectify, if you have a flat display you can rectify it and smilebox it. So I can simulate the curved screen on any film (if you think about it, that is what happens in any cinema equipped with a curved screen, not just the cinerama ones).
    Please note that you can have on the screen as many control points as you like, so you can be as accurate as you wish.
    (I am not affiliated in any way with fly.elise)
     
  18. bdzmusicprod

    bdzmusicprod Auditioning

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    If you have the money you can get a slightly curved wide screen installed in your home. For those with deep pockets they can get such bells and whistles. For the average schlub like myself we are at the mercy of what AND how a distribution company want us to view films. Again I will state that most people do not care about "Breathtaking CinemaScope, glorious technicolor and stereophonic sound". A home theater with a curved screen and a projection system to match will cost plenty. You can go to youtube.com and see videos of such installations. Cinerama and Todd-Ao were not the only ones to use a curved screen. Early CinemaScope used a slightly curved screen to correct distortion at the sides of the picture. Some theaters with very large screens still use slightly curved screens to this day. I personally would love to see large film formats made available in the SmileBox process. :)
     
  19. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
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    They also had specially ground optics to deal with the specific throw and screen environment.
     
  20. RolandL

    RolandL Producer

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    Home Cinerama
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOY2lREuwjU&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clNKD6lSXMY&feature=related
     

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