5 Westerns you'd like to see on blu (1 Viewer)

[Douglas Monce]

Originally Posted by Richard--W /forum/thread/300270/5-westerns-you-d-like-to-see-on-blu/60#post_3687906
That post was awkwardly worded, wasn't it? Yes, I'm aware that dye-transfer is -- was -- a lab process. But I think you'll agree with my point about the quality and beauty of the work.

Absolutely. Its amazing the things that Technicolor could do with an Eastman negative. I just don't know how well that look can be duplicated today.
Doug

 

[Douglas Monce]

Originally Posted by Vincent_P /forum/thread/300270/5-westerns-you-d-like-to-see-on-blu/60#post_3687922

The tossing of the HEAVEN'S GATE trims actually occurred in the early 1990s when MGM decided to save some storage costs by tossing out ALL of their trim negatives- not just GATE but every negative trim they had in storage was junked:

http://chud.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-76420.html

http://www.screendaily.com/classic-film-out-takes-lost-in-studio-clear-out/4022011.article

Vincent

Interesting. I knew it had to be either at the time the UA went under, or when MGM was about to. As I posted above, UA also trashed a huge amount of material before they were sold to MGM.

Doug

 

[benbess]

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce /forum/thread/300270/5-westerns-you-d-like-to-see-on-blu/60#post_3688042




Its possible that the negatives are in the same condition that many are from that era. Look at the efforts to restore The High and the Mighty for example. I think most of the Scott westerns were for Columbia and I don't know what their policy on separation masters were, particularly for B films which is what those were considered to be. However most of the Scott films were recently transferred for the Budd Boetticher boxed set, so there must be a fairly good source available. 7 Men from Now is a Batjac production and I believe was recently restored by the Wayne foundation.

Doug

Thanks. Didn't know the preservation story about The High and the Mighty. I've heard of the film, but haven't seen it. It was the template in a way for Airplane in 1970, perhaps?

Anyway, here's what wikipedia says:

"By the 1960s and 1970s, The High and the Mighty became a television staple, but due to tighter broadcast schedules and several royalty disputes, however, the film's last appearances on broadcast television were in 1982 on the TBS cable channel, and on Cinemax in March/April 1985. One crucial element in the The High and the Mighty's resurrection was the extensive restoration required after decades of languishing in the Wayne film vault where the film suffered major water damage and one reel was lost for a period of time, making the possibility of such a pristine restoration seemingly unlikely.[1] As a result of the film's rarity, it developed a cult following, which led to petitions to get the film released in home video formats. The estate of John Wayne, through Gretchen Wayne, the widow of the actor's late son, Michael, made a deal in the early 2000s with Cinetech (film) and Chace Productions (sound) to update and restore both The High and the Mighty and another "lost" Wayne film, Island in the Sky.[23] This led to a distribution agreement with Batjac Productions (Wayne's production and distribution company) and both American Movie Classics (for TV rights) and Paramount Pictures (home video rights).[2] Following the recovery of the lost reel, The High and the Mighty, after its meticulous restoration, was rebroadcast on television in July 2005, the first broadcasts in 20 years.[1] Together with Island in the Sky, the film was released as a "special collector's edition" DVD in August of the same year by Paramount Home Entertainment. It was also broadcast on Turner Classic Movies on October 27, 2007."

No mention of a separation master that I see. I think it is maybe a fluke that there are seps for some movies. I remember vaguely way back in maybe 1978, by which time George Lucas realized he had a significant piece of cinematic history with Star Wars. He did a sep master around that time (or maybe a few years later) for the film, iirc. Again, if memory serves (and it may not) it was a special thing to get that done for Star Wars, and was not usual studio practice at that point. I kind of doubt it was ever normal studio practice except for prestige productions, and and quite possibly not even then, but I really don't know...

 

[benbess]

A well preserved technicolor negative is like its own 3 color separation master, right?

Iirc, the studios started to move to the cheaper and lower light Eastmancolor etc. around 1953. It may not have been until 4-5 years later that studios realized that these film stocks and negatives simply didn't last the way technicolor did. And by that time they were so financially stressed by tv that its amazing they did sep masters at all, imho. Rather clever to come up with the idea. I wonder who thought of it and invented the process?

 

[Douglas Monce]

Originally Posted by benbess /forum/thread/300270/5-westerns-you-d-like-to-see-on-blu/60#post_3688058
A well preserved technicolor negative is like its own 3 color separation master, right?
Iirc, the studios started to move to the cheaper and lower light Eastmancolor etc. around 1953. It may not have been until 4-5 years later that studios realized that these film stocks and negatives simply didn't last the way technicolor did. And by that time they were so financially stressed by tv that its amazing they did sep masters at all, imho. Rather clever to come up with the idea. I wonder who thought of it and invented the process?

3 strip Technicolor is just that. 3 strips of B&W film running through the camera at the same time each with a filter to record one part of the color spectrum. So in reality its 3 negatives for a film shot in Technicolor. This is one reason why shooting on Eastman film was so much more desirable than shooting with Technicolor cameras for the studios. Technicolor cameras were huge and heavy. Shooting Eastman color allowed the use of the standard cameras that were being used to shoot B&W films. Of course B&W film is much more stable than color film and isn't subject to fading, so the color record is stored in the filtered B&W film.
B&W separation masters may have been a result of the early process of making Technicolor prints from Eastman negatives, but I don't know for sure.
Eastman color film was introduced in 1950 and first used on a commercial feature film in 1951. The last American 3 strip Techicolor film was Firefox made in 1954.
Doug

 

[Richard--W]

HEAVEN'S GATE is the least interesting western of its era. I like it and I enjoy it, and I admire Vilmos Zsigmond's cinematography, but the film is bad history and badly screwed-up storytelling. There are far more interesting and valuable westerns to put ahead of HEAVEN'S GATE.
Another sturdy western that has fallen through the cracks is CATTLE ANNIE AND LITTLE BRITCHES starring Diane Lane and Burt Lancaster. Like most of the other westerns I mentioned, it's never been on DVD which makes it more appealing to Blu-Ray consumers..
Quote:

That post was awkwardly worded, wasn't it? Yes, I'm aware that dye-transfer is -- was -- a lab process. But I think you'll agree with my point about the quality and beauty of the work.

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
Absolutely. Its amazing the things that Technicolor could do with an Eastman negative. I just don't know how well that look can be duplicated today.
Doug

It can't be duplicated today. Every aspect of technology is different now, from the lights to the lenses to the emulsions and the aesthetic judgment of the film maker. Digital intermediates are dimming and posterizing the range and nuance of photochemical sources out of existence. Several years ago Roan Group issued DVD's of VENGEANCE VALLEY and RAGE AT DAWN sourced from "Technicolor elements," meaning privately owned 35mm prints. Although some effort was made to clean them, the films were used and looked used, but they held up well enough reveal how a Technicolor print looked to audiences in the early 1950s. Both DVD's are worth owning if you can find them.
I suspect the Chinese have been using a dye-transfer process that they are not admitting to, judging by some of the recent films I've seen.
Would you agree that Jan Troell's trilogy would look mighty fine on DVD.

 

[benbess]

As part of my Western binge I just watched this Rawhide episode on dvd:

INCIDENT OF THE TUMBLEWEED WAGON
THE CATTLE DRIVE, HEADED BY TRAIL BOSS GIL FAVOR AND HIS CHIEF "RAMROD" ROWDY YATES, SHARES CAMP WITH A MARSHAL AND HIS DEPUTY WHO ARE TAKING PRISONERS FOR A COURT TRIAL VIA A TUMBLEWEED WAGON.
Pretty good TV Western. More location photography than some other tv Westerns of the time, I think. Fun to see a young Clint. There's a good article on the show at this Eastwood web site:

http://www.clinteastwood.net/welcome/alt/

When watching a dvd, however, you really notice that the pq is a lot less than blu...But it probably is clearer than what people saw on their sets in 1959...

 

[benbess]

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce /forum/thread/300270/5-westerns-you-d-like-to-see-on-blu/60#post_3688076
3 strip Technicolor is just that. 3 strips of B&W film running through the camera at the same time each with a filter to record one part of the color spectrum. So in reality its 3 negatives for a film shot in Technicolor. This is one reason why shooting on Eastman film was so much more desirable than shooting with Technicolor cameras for the studios. Technicolor cameras were huge and heavy. Shooting Eastman color allowed the use of the standard cameras that were being used to shoot B&W films. Of course B&W film is much more stable than color film and isn't subject to fading, so the color record is stored in the filtered B&W film.
B&W separation masters may have been a result of the early process of making Technicolor prints from Eastman negatives, but I don't know for sure.
Eastman color film was introduced in 1950 and first used on a commercial feature film in 1951. The last American 3 strip Techicolor film was Firefox made in 1954.
Doug

Doug: Thanks for this info. You've enhanced my understanding!

 

[JohnRa]

"Bend of the River" certainly needs an upgrade. That scenery should look great if a good Blu could be produced.

 

[Robin9]

The Wonderful Country would look superb on Blu-ray. It's a really interesting movie with an unusual sub-theme of identity. It has excellent color cinematography ideal for high definition. The movie's not available even in standard definition!

 

[Richard--W]

The Wonderful Country would look superb on Blu-ray. It's a really interesting movie with an unusual sub-theme of identity. It has excellent color cinematography ideal for high definition. The movie's not available even in standard definition!

I second that.
THE WONDERFUL COUNTRY was shot by Floyd Crosby and Alex Philips in rugged Durango, Mexico locations.
TCM has shown a lovely print more than a few times so it's been restored.
It was originally released by United Artists -- MGM or Warner Brothers own it now, right.

 

[benbess]

Originally Posted by Richard--W



I second that.
THE WONDERFUL COUNTRY was shot by Floyd Crosby and Alex Philips in rugged Durango, Mexico locations.
TCM has shown a lovely print more than a few times so it's been restored.
It was originally released by United Artists -- MGM or Warner Brothers own it now, right.

Sounds like a good film.

And here's a vote for Paint Your Wagon, the musical Western starring Eastwood and Marvin. Was it made in 70mm?

Here's a link to a nice small ensemble live version of Ennio Morricone's music from The Good The Bad and The Ugly:

 

[JohnRa]

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
Eastman color film was introduced in 1950 and first used on a commercial feature film in 1951. The last American 3 strip Techicolor film was Firefox made in 1954.
Doug

Was that "Foxfire?" /img/vbsmilies/htf/wink.gif
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048091/

 

[Douglas Monce]

Originally Posted by JohnRa

Was that "Foxfire?" /img/vbsmilies/htf/wink.gif
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048091/

Yep. Sorry dyslexia strikes again. /img/vbsmilies/htf/biggrin.gif

Doug

 

[ToEhrIsHuman]

Well, I have a "guilty pleasure" affinity for 'Young Guns 2'. (and wouldn't mind if the original got a re-release with a proper transfer.) I'd also like to have 'Cannibal: The Musical' on BD....oh, and 'Back to the Future: Part III" too!

 

[Elijah Sullivan]

1. McCabe & Mrs. Miller
2. Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid
3. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia
4. Once Upon a Time in the West
5. Heaven's Gate

 

[John Hodson]

Pat Garrett and Billy The Kid (not the Seydor cut, thank you)
She Wore a Yellow Ribbon
Once Upon A Time In The West
The Alamo
Heaven's Gate
(and The Big Country, Red River, Gunfight At The O.K. Corral, High Noon, McCabe & Mrs. Miller, Fort Apache, The Tall T, Giù la testa, Shane, and...)

 

[Paul_Scott]

Bite The Bullet
Once Upon A Time In The West
The Big Country
McCabe & Mrs Miller
Bend Of The River or Duel In The Sun or There Was A Crooked Man or ...

 

[benbess]

Originally Posted by Elijah Sullivan
1. McCabe & Mrs. Miller
2. Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid
3. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia
4. Once Upon a Time in the West
5. Heaven's Gate

Elijah: Great list!

 

[benbess]

Originally Posted by John Hodson
Pat Garrett and Billy The Kid (not the Seydor cut, thank you)
She Wore a Yellow Ribbon
Once Upon A Time In The West
The Alamo
Heaven's Gate
(and The Big Country, Red River, Gunfight At The O.K. Corral, High Noon, McCabe & Mrs. Miller, Fort Apache, The Tall T, Giù la testa, Shane, and...)

John Hodson: Another terrific list.