24: Season 2 - Hour 21 - 4/29/03 (1 Viewer)

[Tom Rags]

Yep, I mean you Almeda - err, Rags.

No problem Mr. Chapelle

 

[Chris Rock]

Favorite Part:
In the commercial for next week,
We see Shari Palmer screaming "How DARE you talk down to me!" at Jack, and immediately aftewards, we see Jack shooting his gun. I know it's a bluff, but it gives me some deep-seeded satisfaction (even to imagine Jack shooting Shari.)


Can't wait to see what really happens.

 

[Craig S]

Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principle officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

In today's government, the phrase "principal officers of the executive departments" clearly would be interpreted as the Cabinet. Putting aside the question (debated in the episode) of how to interpret the phrase "unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office", the amendment quite plainly allows for the VP & the Cabinet to transfer powers to the VP as Acting President.

I also note the 4 day time period referred to in the episode by the VP for the President to appeal to Congress is in there as well.

After actually reading the document in question (what a concept), I'm impressed. The writers have done their research, and come up with a plausible, believable scenario.

 

[VicRuiz]

All these people that are complaining that the removal of the President by the Cabinet couldn't happen really haven't bothered to even check the Constitution. Not only is it possible but it could happen pretty much as depicted. Here is the exact text of the relevant part of the 25th Amendment:

Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

 

[Joel Mack]

Okay, I missed the first 5 minutes.

How did Jack get the chip back?

 

[VicRuiz]

Craig, you type too fast for me!

 

[Craig S]

Copy & paste, Vic, copy & paste!!!

But hey, great minds think alike!!

 

[Alex Spindler]

Just as a note, the HBO original film The Enemy Within came to the same conclusion (Cabinet and the VP being the appropriate group and the 4 day appeal), but by their mutual agreement on the interpretation, I would have to say that it is a plausible scenario.

 

[Jay W]

Joel:

It was basically a standoff with the two goons, one of them wanted to turn the chip over and the other didn't. They started fighting amongst themselves, at which time Jack busted the door down and got them (though not before they dropped the chip in the scuffle).

 

[Jordan_E]

The episode, while solid, left me wanting more. I guess I wanted to see Jack pop a cap in that Redneck's ass!

 

[Jeffrey_Scotts]

Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Yes, that was what I was referring to. Read the first of this paragraph and you will see that it says "Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress..." that would mean it would require more than just the VP. While this could mean the President's own cabinate as one of them, it would still not be feasable. Like I stated before, it's the President's OWN cabinate. So the remote possability of anything close to that happening in real life is highly unlikely.

Tom Rags:

Actually, if it was SCI-FI, I would buy into ANYTHING. But this is dealing with real life and should be close to accurate as possible. So your argument based on the whole outter space SCI-FI issue is pointless since they are completely different. Sorry.

 

[Tom Rags]

Jeffrey-
I didn't mean to offend, however my point still stands. Forget the Star Wars argument.

But this is dealing with real life

Though Jack Bauer was dead 2 hours ago, he has still managed to kill a few people, exchange deep glances with his love interest, and recover the chip he was looking for in that amount of time. And this thing with the cabinet is your quibble? Real Life?
It may not be science fiction, but it is still FICTION. You just came off really pretentious and thread farting by stating how stupid the writers are and how much smarter you are than this show. If you really feel this way, why do you watch? It's not just you. Someone always seems to feel the need to interject everyweek how "Season 2 sucks" and "The writers are so lazy" and yada yada yada.
I don't understand why people can't just sit back and enjoy the FICTION of this show. And if they can't, why do they still feel the need to watch it and knock it every week?
I'm not particularly fond of "American Idol," yet I don't feel the need to post things in the American Idol thread like "Nobody would EVER get a recording contract singing Barry Manilow. It's just not accurate!"

 

[Patrick Sun]

Gotta love the big shocking ending scene with Sherrie in the hacker's apartment.

Mike's gonna fry once this is all over.

 

[CaptDS9E]

Concerning the 25th Ammendment. In one of the new york papers yesterday (think it was dailynews) they had a article in the tv section where they talked to the head people on 24 and how something like that could really happen. For those intrested it may be at nydailynews.com somehwere. Havent looked myself

capt

 

[WayneG]

The thing that confuses me about the whole ordeal is that the Coral Snake team, an American team, knew about the bomb and was tracking it for weeks. Doesn't the cabinet know this? Palmer mentioned Coral Snake and nobody asked, "what's that?" They appeared to understand. Isn't it obvious to them that there are U.S. interests behind this? Don't they know that Jack Bauer found the bomb and prevented it from being detonated in L.A.? For the coup to be plausible the cabinet members have to ignore elements that they seem to know and that would lead them to side with the president. I think the writers wrote themselves into a corner and they've had to ignore plot points to get themselves out of it.

I'm glad the chip was destroyed. Enough already.

Strangely, the episode was dramatic in some ways, and does open things up for the final stretch.

 

[Michael Hughes]

You definitely have to leave your brain at the door to enjoy this show more and more, much like most action movies, but once you do, it is damn good stuff. Once again the writers prove they will not take the easy way out and have a no holds barred approach (except to killing off Jack Bauer)and had Palmer lose the vote, almost every other show on TV you would have seen him win that vote by 1. Sherri still gets my vote as giving the ultimate payback to her husband for kicking her out of the White House. Part of the payoff from the VP for this conspiracy to her is that he makes her his VP

But really, the Nina 2nd chip theory sounds like a good one...

 

[Hugh Jackes]

Assuming that in the 24 universe, using the 25th amendment this way is perfectly legal and constitutional. We know, from watching Palmer for the past 21 hours that his actions have been occasionally timid, occasionally extreme, but generally correct. Therefore, we can argue that the cabinet and veep were wrong in their vote and that Palmer wasn't incapacitated.

That's all fine and well, and Palmer should immediately (or in the 4-day period specified in the amendment) be reinstated. But, consider history: When did Nixon finally realize that the gig was up and that he had no chance? It was when the leaders of his own party approached him and told him that it was time to go. In a way, although not through corruption like Nixon, Palmer has reached a similar point.

In the 24 universe, assuming that he is reinstated, can he still govern?

 

[David Forbes]

In the 24 universe, assuming that he is reinstated, can he still govern?

Yes, because this is not his party, it is his Cabinet, and if he's reinstated it will be by proving his policy decision was correct. He would have some serious house cleaning to do (though I would expect that those Cabinet members who voted against him would simply resign, perhaps horrified by their error), but he could still govern.

Nixon was ousted because the people of the country knew he was a crook and would no longer tolerate him. Palmer, if the public learns that he was being cautious about starting a war, was removed from office for it, and then was vindicated because he was right all along, would probably rally behind him.

 

[Dave Bennett]

I'm with Jeffrey. The first episodes of this season that I watched (I came into the show right around the time they rescued Kate from the torcherer) were great. Suspenseful and had great writing. The last few episodes(ever since the break) have been very predictable and nowhere near as well done. Will I still watch the rest? Yes, but unless they can really wow me I probably won't say that I loved the series.

 

[Jeffrey_Scotts]

Two other points that hasn't been mentioned yet.

First, is the fact that if we suspend reality for awhile and go with the Prsident's own cabinate turning against him, we come to the issue of treason. It's highly proabble, that under the circumstances at the time, most of the cabinate including the VP could be brought up on treason charges. If the ending of the show it's the President who's correct about the issues, then we get into an entire legal area of reprocussions.

Second, is that even if they manage to avoid treason charges at the very least it would be political suicide for any party member be it cabinate, House or Senate to vote against the President without all the facts. Assuming the ending will have the President being correct about the issues he was faced with during this day, every single one of them would not only have to resign, but would never hold ANY political job anywhere again.