2012 Multi-room HTPC (1 Viewer)

[DaveF]

I just heard Ivy Bridge is postponed from the expected Spring until Summer.

Doesn't really affect me, but I won't make any plans around it

 

[DaveF]

And for those playing along at home:
Ceton InfiniTV 4 price drop to $199 (both PCI and USB)

http://www.amazon.com/Ceton-InfiniTV-Digital-Cable-Quad-tuner/dp/B003B4VLJQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329795318&sr=8-1
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815706001

 

[mattCR]

Yep! Darnit, they leaped the gun on me! March 1 was supposed to be the day.. though there are still 2 more other announcements between now and March 1 that will impact you... and a review I should post right after that.

 

[DaveF]

Sorry to step on your thunder (to mangle some metaphors...)

I was checking TCF and there was a thread about the price drop.

 

[Mark Breaux]

How is it coming? I am getting closer but like you...life events keep me from pulling the trigger.
I keep going back and forth between intel and amd. I read the a8 processors are good for htpcs but the FM1 socket won't be used again so no future proofing. But the Hd3000 is not good enough to even play starcraft2 so how can it play back video in the best quality? So that means a stand alone GPU. That also means heat in a small case. There are so many options.
Also on the Netflix issue, I game on my Xbox so I have a gold account. Netflix playback is great and in HD plus I get espn 3 for sports. My plan is to use my old computer as an unraid server and add drives as needed. It's the beauty of the software. It would be perfect for your situation. My issue is that the Xbox won't easily play content from the unraid box. Not sure I like that but since I will have the htpc I can stream it from there but bandwidth may be an issue if I am streaming from the unraid server to the htpc to the Xbox.
As for your question on which case, I would buy a mid tower now and then just use that case for your NAS down the road and buy an htpc case at that time. That way you get the room you need now and you aren't wasting money. The other option is external drives.

 

[DaveF]

For an HTPC I see only recommendations for i3 and Pentium G CPUs. If you want it for games too, that might change the price / performance. What gaming I do, is on the the 360.

The issue with a mid-tower for me is the system will go into the living room hutch initially, and I want something not ugly and somewhat conventional.


My planning has slowed down a lot. I could start pricing and buying. I think I've got a good, workable hardware list. But I'm on hold until the house is sold. With summer TV-on-disc coming up, i wish I could get it done and get Smallville S7 & S8 into a media system

 

[DaveF]

I'm on hiatus. New home purchase is bleeding me dry, leaving nothing for the HTPC.
So what's the rumors about MS abandoning media center and that HTPC is now dead.?

 

[DaveF]

I've been experimenting, to learn about 7MC and decide if it's a good solution before spending $1500 and months of weekends building a system. I've installed Win7 in BootCamp on my 2007 MacBook Pro (2.4 GHz C2D). Following the Assassin's Guides, I setup MediaBrowser and have ripped some DVDs in a few formats. I also borrowed an HD HomeRun and got the DVR working last weekend.

I'm left with two big questions:
* Is Media Center painfully slow through an Xbox with a 2012-era PC? Extender use is very slow. Much slower than my Tivo and possibly unusably slow. Scrolling through the TV Guide takes about a second per channel step. Changing channels, is multiple seconds. Entering MediaBrowers takes about 10 - 20 seconds before it's responsive. Scrolling movies and selecting menu choices in Media Browser takes a second or two for each click. But the Windows PC is a Core 2 Duo system; and some of my usage is wifi (though it was also slow on ethernet).

* Is there no robust solution for sending movies from the master PC to an extender? Pure RIP, with all features and full quality, can't be played on the extender (I tried Extender360; no success). Transcoded MKVs might or might not play (depending on whether I use just the right parameters), require discarding all special features, and sacrificing quality. And 5 hours per movie to transcode. This is a bummer.

The second issue is acceptable.

The first issue is a big deal. But maybe with an i3 system on ethernet, everything is zippy on an extender.

 

[mattCR]

Dave,
I cannot say anything yet... but without saying anything yet..

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815706003

Ok, carrying on..

The day that they ship, I'll say something but.. this answers pretty much all your questions above, without answering your questions above.

 

[DaveF]

Interesting. I've been erratically following the thread at AVS, and the comments have not been impressive.
I hope it's good, since the promise is great.

 

[mattCR]

Well, frankly, the discussion on AVS is a goofball one. I've avoided it. The issue is that Ceton is still in beta, there are still ongoing issues, and they don't have a release for another 30 days. If I could tell you about products I've seen 30 days before release.. but I will say that while there are some issues, there are also a lot of things I see in this that pretty much answer your questions. But ceton asked all in the Beta to agree to the NDA. The fact that tons of people won't honor theirs is on them, I'll honor mine.

 

[DaveF]

That's good to hear. A $180 extender fits my HTPC budget well. And if it could play video_ts or iso rips, that would be some great icing on the cake. (But I'm assuming it won't given the state of 7MC)
My reaction to the DVR feature was very positive; just too slow to replace TiVo. I need to visit some enthusiasts out here and get demos, see if a faster base pc improves things

 

[DaveF]

Where does the time go?

I may have to give up on an HTPC. What I want seems impossible. After reading about HTPCs the past year, conversations here and on AVS, playing some on my Mac with a borrowed HomeRun Prime, and following the Ceton Echo beta and early reviews, I can't find an HTPC configuration that does what I need.

I have two basic goals:
* Whole house DVR (centralized programming of 4+ tuners on master device, with DVR / playback in other rooms)
* Whole house Movies / TV series (centralized storage of DVD & Blu-ray rips with playback of movies and special features, at original disc quality, in other rooms)

These two desires are at odds with each other. For the DVR, I need to use extenders (Xbox or Echo). I can't use satellite HTPCs; they require dedicated tuners, individual programming and storage. Worse, they can't stream recorded shows to each other (assuming the copy-flag is set by the cable providers. But for movie streaming, I need satellite HTPCs, since extenders can't play ripped discs (or even high bit rate transcodes).


My disc watching is apparently unconventional, but easy to explain: I enjoy special features and commentaries.


I've got three seasons of Community on DVD, unopened. I want to feed those into a (hypothetical) HTPC in the basement. I'll watch them in the bedroom, episodes, and then with commentaries. I also have Band of Brothers and The Pacific on Blu-ray, unopened. I want to feed those into a basement HTPC, and watch in the living room, through the SVS speakers; and then watch the historical, making-of, etc. special features. The only solution I've found with 7MC is full disc rips and satellite PCs.

The Ceton InfiniTV and Echo are on sale for $50 off (bundled) right now. I'd buy if I knew I could make that combo do what I've described. Unfortunately, as it is, I see the HTPC being more dream than reality for my interests.

I could build a movie / disc-only solution with prime and satellite PCs. But it's a lot of money and effort for half a solution, and I'm still spending a big chunk to upgrade the Tivos to get a 4 tuner system.

Is my assessment correct? Or are there solutions I've missed or misunderstood?

 

[onemoar]

this is how I would do it
http://cl.ly/LstJ/Newegg.pdf
it would be nearly 10 times as powerful as your build and cheaper
just add a few cheap HDMI Multiplier's and a quality KVMP and KVM extender and you should be set

 

[onemoar]

woops put the wrong gpu in the cart
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162115
get 3 of those and you should be-able to drive 6 displays without a issue 7 if you include the onchip video
or you can use the one in the cart and use a HDMI muli

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by DaveF /t/317288/2012-multi-room-htpc/60#post_4018971
Where does the time go?

I may have to give up on an HTPC. What I want seems impossible. After reading about HTPCs the past year, conversations here and on AVS, playing some on my Mac with a borrowed HomeRun Prime, and following the Ceton Echo beta and early reviews, I can't find an HTPC configuration that does what I need.

I have two basic goals:
* Whole house DVR (centralized programming of 4+ tuners on master device, with DVR / playback in other rooms)
* Whole house Movies / TV series (centralized storage of DVD & Blu-ray rips with playback of movies and special features, at original disc quality, in other rooms)

These two desires are at odds with each other. For the DVR, I need to use extenders (Xbox or Echo). I can't use satellite HTPCs; they require dedicated tuners, individual programming and storage. Worse, they can't stream recorded shows to each other (assuming the copy-flag is set by the cable providers. But for movie streaming, I need satellite HTPCs, since extenders can't play ripped discs (or even high bit rate transcodes).


My disc watching is apparently unconventional, but easy to explain: I enjoy special features and commentaries.


I've got three seasons of Community on DVD, unopened. I want to feed those into a (hypothetical) HTPC in the basement. I'll watch them in the bedroom, episodes, and then with commentaries. I also have Band of Brothers and The Pacific on Blu-ray, unopened. I want to feed those into a basement HTPC, and watch in the living room, through the SVS speakers; and then watch the historical, making-of, etc. special features. The only solution I've found with 7MC is full disc rips and satellite PCs.

The Ceton InfiniTV and Echo are on sale for $50 off (bundled) right now. I'd buy if I knew I could make that combo do what I've described. Unfortunately, as it is, I see the HTPC being more dream than reality for my interests.

I could build a movie / disc-only solution with prime and satellite PCs. But it's a lot of money and effort for half a solution, and I'm still spending a big chunk to upgrade the Tivos to get a 4 tuner system.

Is my assessment correct? Or are there solutions I've missed or misunderstood?

Your setup is very much like what I do.
In my main room, I have a single HTPC/DVR, 8 CableCard tuners and 2 analog. Using combinations of software, I stream in content from UK/Australia/Japan and supplement my guide.

The main HTPC in the living room is currently connected to a NAS (at the moment, 28TB). I rip, store, and file almost all BD/DVD. Now, in some cases, I store them whole, menus and all. But in many cases, I keep just the main movie. I then file the disc and content away in my closet so the kids can't get at them.
Using XBOX or now Ceton Echo, I output it to 3 other rooms. Each of them can use full DVR functions, see my commonly stored TV, etc. Using MCTV-Converter, I sometimes archive TV shows from my recordings (hell, it'll wipe out commercials if I ask) so for shows that haven't received a HD release, it's easy for me to trim and keep.

Now, there are alternatives to how you do this.. it's just a matter of how you like to see it. The extras are right now an issue because you like to keep the menuing. For me, I hate keeping the BD/DVD menus, I want to get straight to the content, and there are several great front ends that make that easy.

Backchannel me sometime or I can take this a different way.

 

[DaveF]

Matt, I'll send you a PM.
I don't care about menus per se. But I've not understood an elegant solution for special features.
I commented elsewhere:
I might be able to make a compromise work.
Master PC and extenders
* whole house DVR through media center. InfiniTV for 4 tuners. If it goes well and desired, double up for 8 tuners.
* rip full discs assuming playback on the PC for "real" movies
* rip & transcode to MKV with multi tracks for commentary the shows I specifically watch remotely, for extender use. Accept that I won't have other special features, and that I'm sacrificing quality for extender playback.
I see that I dont really understand how multiple HTPCs interact and work with tuners for live DVR, recording schedules, and storage.

 

[OhReally]

I currently am using a HTPC with XBOX as extenders. Old AMD PC with on-board video (not APU) and on-board sound HDHomeRun Prime Movies are ripped using AutoRip and Compress, it automatically looks up the movie and pulls the DVD cover. I chose WTV since it works on the XBOX without issues and I like the 30 sec skip forward and 5 second skip back. I have small children so I skip back a lot to hear dialogue. I usually watch the DVD the first time using the physical media so that I can see all the extras and fancy menus. I then rip the DVD and put it away. If I really want to see the extras again, I just pull out the DVD. I think you can make a HTPC work for you but you might have to bend a few requirements.

 

[DaveF]

I've hit analysis paralysis. There's no complete solution for whole-home DVR and media archive. I could get much of what I want with a central system, an extra 360, and time spent ripping / transcoding movies to the magic formats that play on extenders. But it's not perfect enough that I want to spend the money on it, versus the $30/mo I spend on Tivos (with high WAF). The design of multiple HTPCs I've rejected as it will be too difficult to maintain multiple machines. It also raises cost and it does't support whole-house DVR.)

I think I'm waiting for the next Tivo S5 (with six tuners?) and a Mini for a whole-house DVR. When the new Tivo launches, I'll compare to Media Center options and decide.

 

[Parker Clack]

Dave:

I have a quad core AMD with 8G of RAM with 4 tuners and an X Box upstairs that works great. I watch my shows
downstairs while my wife watches hers upstairs on the X Box. I haven't tried watching a movie that I have on my
HTPC to my X Box yet but I am sure I will be able to.

The thing that really made it work well without the lag from one to the other is using a Netgear Powerline. I don't
have dedicated Cat5 but I get great transmission speeds over the Powerline.

I am going to try streaming a movie from my HTPC to my X Box and will let you know it works out.

Packy