Regarding Fight Club - to me, the book and movie are both about the emptiness of modern society, and the fact that many people out there are so desperate to find something to give their life meaning, to fill whatever hole they have in their life. How desperate? They will even follow someone that is insane - and that is so obviously insane that there is no way they could have failed to recognise this - provided the person seems to offer them some kind of meaning.
Is the book or the film pro-terrorist? Only in the sense that it fails to state explicitly that terrorism is bad, instead relying on the moral judgement of the viewer to reach that conclusion. This is a movie for adults, and Fincher knew that we don't need some after-school-special "And this was how Tyler learned that blowing things up is bad" ending. Because he assumed that we as mature intelligent thinking audience members would recognise that the main character is a bloody loon and not take anything he says seriously, but instead be concerned at the thought of other people taking him seriously. Just because the explosives plot succeeded doesn't mean the film is saying that that is a good thing.
Now, what is scary is the thought that some people may watch the film, and not think about it or critically analyse the film. And if they don't actually recognise this, they so may interpret the film as being pro-terrorist. That would upset me.
I can't believe all these haters of Fight Club on my thread. I hate to say but that is my favorite movie. Seen it 7 times (of course with different people) at the theater.
"The things you own, end up owning you" Fight Club is the best movie of the 90's IMHO
Ever read Walden by Thoreau? He was saying the same thing 150 years ago.
"I see young men, my townsmen, whose misfortune it is to have inherited farms, houses, barns, cattle, and farming tools; for these are more easily acquired than got rid of."
There is a great deal of "Walden" in Fight Club, the same longing for meaning, the same rebellion against conformity, the same criticism of the accumulation of property as a limit on personal freedom, the same thirst to feel truly alive...same philosophy, just without the guns, sex, machismo, fist fights, and terrorism.
Maybe it's just me, but I got the strange feeling that Fincher was sort of jonesing on the sights of Starbucks erupting in flames or the skyscrapers tumbling to the ground. I'm not so sure of Fincher's feelings in this regard when he made the film, as opposed to how he would feel now. Back in 1999, these images of destruction had a kind of giddy Terminator 2 feeling to them, like kids excited to see a firecracker explode. Very different today.
Sort of calls to mind that comment by Truffaut that it was impossible to make an anti-war film because it was impossible to make war not look exciting on film.
With a slant like that, superheroes should have ended when Superman and Batman were created. Cause everyone after was just a different form of them.
So Walden's ideas were made into a more appealing modern package. Doesn't make Fight Club any worse of a movie or should not been made. I like the direction, they shooting style, the gritty look, the characters, Ed Norton and Brad Pitt were great in it and the sound track was superb.
So Walden's ideas were made into a more appealing modern package. Doesn't make Fight Club any worse of a movie or should not been made.
And who said either? Who said the fact that Fight Club derives its more profound meanings from philosophies that have been around for a long time made Fight Club a bad movie? Who said it should not have been made?
I'm never sure what to do with this sort of observation. Of course, Fight Club isn't original. That's a very important thing to understand. But Thoreau wasn't the originator of such concepts either. Jesus got at the same concepts 2000 years ago. And King Solomon suggests similar ideas, as he observes that worldly experience can be dissatisfying. Philosophically, there is nothing (or very little) new under the sun.
So if nothing is original, is it of value? I think movies (and books and internet conversations, etc) bring new perspectives, new presentations, new personal insights to age-old ideas.
And if a college kid had never read Thoreau, better Fight Club to enlighten him, than to never think the thoughts at all. And if he reads Ernest's comment, perhaps he'll be motivated to look further back.
Anyhow... this thought has been clanging in my noggin as I've read the "Cinema is as good as ever" thread, particularly when people decry the derivative nature of modern movies, in contrast to their "original" films from the '20s.
Oh, and I wanted to walk out of "The Grinch" tonight, but my sister had control of her DVD remote and I don't have a car
Here's a question that's been brewing in my mind for awhile having seen such threads pop up from time to time. What on earth possesses people to see some of these obviously terrible movies in the first place? Some movies I understand might appeal to someone, or the trailers/commercials might make the movie look better than it is, but that excuse only goes so far. I mean seriously, who could not tell from the commercials that "Soul Plane" was going to be bad, or "Van Helsing", or *shudder* "Kangaroo Jack." I could go on from the nice lists in this thread, but I'm afraid I'd have nightmares. Since I've put together a modest home theater I rarely go to movies anyways, but some of those mentioned in this thread you would not have been able to drag me to.
Here are the reasons I remember people have mentioned in the past: It's somehow related to my job to be there. Kids made me go. Date/spouse made me go. It was free (not a very good reason to suffer, IMNSHO )
Anyone have more to add? Perhaps having something to do with clinical insanity or illegal substances? I'm sure there's a good story in there somewhere...
"But Thoreau wasn't the originator of such concepts either."
Never said he was. But I think Walden was a *specific* and clear influence on Fight Club. Like Thoreau, Tyler and "Jack" abandon their creature comforts to go and live outside normal civilization, to strip away the artifice of their lives in a journey to discover what is meaningful. There are so many parallels in the ideas expressed in Fight Club to similar statements made by Thoreau that I'm willing to bet there are scores upon scores of college thesis papers stacking up all over the country on the very topic of comparing Fight Club to Thoreau's work as we speak.
"Anyone have more to add? Perhaps having something to do with clinical insanity or illegal substances? I'm sure there's a good story in there somewhere..."
We went to have fun. Life should not be all broccoli and spinach - a little junk food now and then is not only harmless, I think in many ways it is essential.
I went to Van Helsing to have fun, and I had a geat time laughing with it. I'm sorry for people who somehow expected this movie to be realistic or plausibile or mature, when it had no intention of being any of those things. It is a purposefully silly movie, leaning more towards John Landis' The Three Amigos than Bram Stoker.
My friends and I went to Van Helsing to have fun, and have fun we did.
I always enjoy reading these threads about movies people hate.
I've never walked out on a movie until I left Dodgeball. I heard a couple of good reviews, and it has Vince Vaughn who I think is really funny. To quote from somebody at another site, this movie was as painful as shitting razor blades. Totally not funny. I wish Ben Stiller would just go away for a while. He has been in a string of shitburgers lately.
I used to be more tolerant of bad rentals also. Now I will shut them off after about 40-45 minutes if they don't hold my interest. Somebody mentioned Soul Plane. One of the worst movies ever made. It comes dangerously close to Freddy Got Fingered in badness.
I Want to Add one More Movie To The List Napoleon Dynamyte This Is One Of The F***** Worst Movies I've Seen. This is Straight Up Garbage Any Critic Who Gave It Good Reviews Is Pretty Stupid As Well. This Movie Just Sucked Plain And Simple
Napolean Dynamite was one movie of 2004 that I walked out of. I saw the movie with an almost packed theater, and virtually everyone else seemed to be really enjoying it. The audience was basically laughing non-stop, and I think that is what prompted me to leave because up until that point I could not figure out what everyone else was seeing that I wasn't. The longer that went on, the more I was being taken out of the movie. I had no desire at that point to see how it ended because...I just did not care.