2003 ML Baseball Playoff Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[John Madia]

I just got back into baseball earlier this year (haven't watched since 91) and was pleased to see the Red Sox doing well. Although it was a hearbreaking loss, it has been a great year for the Sox and they'll have the chance to get even better next year. Does anyone know a site which tells which players will be free agents next year? Red Sox need one great starting pitcher. My pick would be Javier vazquez, assuming the Expos let him go. Other than him I think Pettite would be a good addition. Other canidates would be Bartolo Colon and maybe Kevin Millwood. I'm not sure what other good starting pitchers would be available.

The best thing coming out of the playoffs is that their bullpen came together and they now have a closer (Scott Williamson who looked dominate throughout the playoffs). With Timlin setting him up and Embree as a left handed specialist, they seem in good shape for next year. Kim's a total wildcard. He has a great arm but can't pitch well to left handers and has control problems. They're probably going to try him as a starter but I don't think he'll be effective unless he fixes those two things.

I don't think the World Series will be as bad or as one sided as most people do. I'm guessing Marlins in six.

 

[Dan Hine]

My pick would be Javier vazquez, assuming the Expos let him go.

Well, it's not really the Expo's call anymore. I think if it were that they would go for it. The Expo's have let a pitcher go to Boston before. Greg Maddux will probably be looking for a home next season too. He didn't have a great year this year and is getting older. But I don't think he's as bad as he seemed sometimes. Everyone has an off year and he could have 2 more great ones with the Red Sox.

As for the WS I'm pulling for the Marlins. First, I like underdogs. Second I'd like to see the Marlins win a championship without buying it. NO, I'm NOT saying the Yankees are buying this one...because they spend a lot of money every year and have not won two years in a row. The Marlins however have been to the series once after a season where they spent money of a ton of players only to ship them off before the next season started. It would be nice to see them win with a smaller payroll and a lot of guys that pulled it off in the end.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Like Kim did earlier in this year's playoffs. By the way, that Yankee pitcher after the season was over, never again pitched for the Yankees.

 

[MarkHastings]

By the way, that Yankee pitcher after the season was over, never again pitched for the Yankees.

Yeah, maybe not the BEST example, but to think there's a team that has not had some 'bad' apples is too be blind.

 

[Eric Paddon]

Yes, Jack McDowell, who in his one year with the Yankees proved he was beginning the downside of his career and never endeared himself even before his flipping incident (Buck Showalter got himself fired for entrusting Game 5 of the ALDS to him in extra innings).

 

[Phil L]

In the entire post season, nothing to me felt as classless as the Red Sox bullpen wearing "Li~ly" on their backs and prompting the Fenway crowd to chant against pitcher Ted Lilly of Oakland. I've never seen anything like that from players.

That made me angry. I was a fan of Lilly and hated the Weaver deal.

The jackets/chants didn't seem to affect him though, he pitched a terrific game.

 

[MikeM]

I agree 100% that it was classless. But to say you've never seen it from players before????

I refer you (quite a few years ago) to a Yankee pitcher who gave the middle finger.......

There's a huge difference.

Both reactions are bad, but the middle finger was a reaction TO the fans. This is the same thing Kim did to the fans in Boston. A bonehead move by a single player.

The difference with the Lily situation was that you had the staff in the Red Sox bullpen collectively trying to assist the entire set of fans to
act just as classless. It was almost as if they were trying to get all of the fans of the stadium to do a "virtual middle finger" to Lily. It's bad enough when you have fans making tasteless actions, but to have the players, promoting it, even encouraging it was a new low for me to see.

 

[Joseph S]

It's bad enough when you have fans making tasteless actions, but to have the players, promoting it, even encouraging it was a new low for me to see.

Since when is this tasteless? For a pitcher that is on par with Casey Fossum, he should take that as a compliment. What is wrong with chanting his name? Yeah, I never see a linebacker calling for the crowd to continue or start a chant or the point guard...

People throwing stuff at Pedro last night and Nelson/Sergio beating up a bullpen attendant is A-OK???

 

[Jeff Gatie]

People throwing stuff at Pedro last night and Nelson/Sergio beating up a bullpen attendant is A-OK???

Now, now, now let's get the Yankee crimin... er, suspects right. Karim Garcia (not Sergio) jumped the bullpen fence to beat the sh..., er, engage in an altercation with the bullpen groundskeeper.

Yup, root for them and not for the nasty, nasty men with the nasty, nasty letters on their back. After all, chanting a player's name (which happens, oh, around 30000 times a season) is like a "big virtual middle finger". Sheesh!

The Sox had a very close relationship with the Fenway Faithful. The wearing of the chant on their backs was just an example of this. It was also a show of support from their bench players, a way to inject themselves into the game and the crowd. The fact I even have to defend this in the same post as Nelson/Garcia makes me feel dirty.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Like Kim did earlier in this year's playoffs. By the way, that Yankee pitcher after the season was over, never again pitched for the Yankees.

Crawdaddy, I'll be very suprised if Kim does not meet the same fate. Here in Boston they are giving 1:1 odds that Kim has pitched his last inning in crimson hose.

 

[ThomasC]

http://www.users.muohio.edu/choongty/bartman.mov

Watch that all the way through.

 

[MikeM]

Since when is this tasteless?

If you can't see it, then I can't explain it any clearer.

The fact that die hard Red Sox fans here at the HTF feel the same way I do that this incident showed no class is evidence enough that it should be fairly obvious there's no need for this in baseball. You can't use an analogy of a football linebacker for baseball. They are different. The next time you see a baseball center fielder spike the baseball and do the centipede dance in centerfield after robbing a player of a home run, is the day that analogy may hold some water.

A perfect example is when Deion Sanders stepped up to the plate and took a "time out" so he could write a big dollar sign in the dirt with his bat. Behind the plate was Carlton Fisk who took off his mask, got in his face and proceeded to scratch out the sign in the dirt. That stuff might fly in the NFL, but it doesn't have a place in baseball.

 

[John Thomas]

The bottom line is what I said before. In Major League Baseball *more* teams have a chance to win the World Series then in any other sport with their championship.

You're sure about that? And the point I was making was that the financial structure was what is undermining the sport. Compare the NFL's to MLB's and we'll see whose is more fiscally sound.

 

[Robert Crawford]

For the last time, stop making personal references towards each other and keep your discussion focused on baseball and the playoffs.




Crawdaddy

 

[MarkHastings]

In Major League Baseball *more* teams have a chance to win the World Series then in any other sport with their championship.

You must not watch hockey.

 

[John Madia]

I think the "LiL-Ly" thing was more immature than classless or tasteless. I doubt Ted Lilly or Oakland was offended by this. I can understand where it came from with the Sox down two games and facing elimination. Their bench players wanted to do something to show unity and get the crowd going. Not the brightest idea but not offensive either.

As for Ted Lilly, from what I've seen he's become a much better pitcher than earlier this year. He certainly pitched well in games three and five.

I forgot about Maddux but he might actually end up in New York. Next year the Yankees only have one definite starter in Mike Mussina. Clemens is gone, Pettite will probably be gone and Wells might be lost also. Contreras might be a starter but I think Weaver will be gone. Yankees will need at least two starting pitchers. If they lose the World Series, Steinbrenner will probably go on a buying spree and I wouldn't be surprised if Maddux ended up with a big money contract.

I still think Vazquez is the Red Sox's best option and they should try their hardest to sign him. I have a feeling they're going to go after Kelim Escobar but I don't think he's the number one guy they should be trying to sign. Kim's probably going to end up as a catch 22 situation. He doesn't seem to have what it takes to pitch for a big market team like Boston but does have the potential to become a great pitcher. If Boston keeps him, he'll probably continue to struggle. If they let him go, he'll probably end up suceeding somewhere else. My prediction is that they keep him another year and see where it goes from there.

As for free agents, is Keith Foulke going to be one? Any chance the Dodgers could get rid of Shawn Green in favor of Vlad Guerro. With their pitching it seems like Vlad would be able to carry them into the playoffs, much like Barry Bonds and the Giants.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Maddux will never pitch in a Yankee uniform. Also, Pettite will be resigned and there is a good possibility that Wells will be back too. Furthermore, Vazquez is not a free agent this year, any team that wants him has to make a trade with Montreal for his services since 2004 is his free agent year.





Crawdaddy

 

[Eric Paddon]

And don't forget the Yankees already have Jon Lieber recovering from a year off of surgery and rehabilitation to be in the rotation for next year. No way do they sign Maddux. The likely rotation next year is Pettitte-Mussina-Lieber-Contreras and maybe Wells for the fifth spot.

 

[Eric Paddon]

"You must not watch hockey."

Actually, I do. And what have I seen but the domination of only three teams in a roughly ten year span (New Jersey, which is nice from my standpoint as a local fan, Detroit and Colorado) At most maybe 6-8 teams have a real shot at winning the Cup and that's less than the 10-12 I think have a shot at it in baseball (and in the NHL you still have the matter of too many teams making it into postseason).

 

[John Madia]

I didn't know that about Vazquez. I just thought that they were dropping him and Vlad once the players vetoed playing the season in two locations. I still think he's the pitcher the Sox need to go after though.