2001: A Space Odyssey..bits and pieces. (1 Viewer)

[Michael_K_Sr]

Anybody see that Gyorgi Ligeti passed away today? Everyone remembers the classical Strauss pieces from the soundtrack, but I've always been haunted by Ligeti's creepy score.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Not a score. His music is all concert work, and Mr. Kubrick used some of it in his film. As for the composer, R.I.P.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Rex, one thing about the "Over" version which I think is relevant is that IIRC there is a scene in Zarathrustra on the tightrope when the jester jumps over the rope walker in a symbolic moment of "improvement" or betterment by him if you will.

Super is meant in it's traditional meaning of over but including, more all encompassing, such as supercede

From Webster online (m-w.com):

Super (prefix)
Etymology: Latin, over, above, in addition, from super over, above, on top of

In American English super has become associated with "greatest", "best", and various forms of power or strength, and not just due to superman. Things like superhuman strength or superior have taken it in that direction. But superscript letters aren't more powerful, greater, or whatever.

Tying his wording closer to the concepts of "going under" and "going over" which are key ingrediants in Zarathrustra is the reason for the "over" translation. It is more about movement within a philosophical existence than a gaining of power or strength or a type of superiority in the sense of comparison/conflict.

It's been a few years, but I took a semester on A.S.Zar. specifically as one of my Humanitarian fulfillments (400 level philosophy for Engineers wasn't typical, but I'm glad I went for it even though it was one of my roughest courses).

Zarathrustra totally changed how I viewed 2001 and while Kubrick might not have directly patterned the film off of it, one can't escape his choice of music first of all and the apparently strong general ties second of all.



Dan or whomever, Also Sprach Zarathrustra is a pretty difficult read and one that I would rely on a companion writing to go through, but if you really dig 2001 you might find it worth it. A Google just on Zarathrusta gets you half-way home with tons of helpful articles and essays about the book.


As for the Nazi's latching onto "superman", they were way off base of Nietzsche's intent IMO and missed the point that the overman would not bother to meddle with limited trivial interests such as war and land possession. That was the whole point in taking that next step. And in a world with Eternal Return there isn't much point to such actions anyway if you have overman awareness.

The Nazi's just co-op'd anything of German heritage in attempt to drum up nationalism.




As for Hal and the "mistake", I have always read it as an intentional lie meant to divert attention away from the sudden suspicion his behavior is creating. Like humans, he goes down a desperate path of lies and violence in an attempt to chase after a solution to a problem that only gets worse with each effort. The first lie requires a second bigger lie or action and so on.

It's almost like HAL becomes the human or takes on the human condition in full due to his contradictory instructions and newfound need for rationalization, and that this in turn frees Bowman to then be guided to the next step and become the overman/Starchild.


My understanding from reading the notes kept by Clarke (on the LD box set) was that the novel and film developed at the same time but remained independent beings because the 2 of them couldn't always agree on where they wanted to take the story. It's not something where one is a version of the other that came after. These are 2 guys both coming up with their own works based off of a common set of brainstorming and early writing sessions.

In fact I thought, but maybe I remember incorrectly, that Clarke went off to finish the novel while Kubrick went off to make the film.


Sucks to hear about Ligeti. That was a brilliantly inspired choice by Kubrick, one of a myriad of course.

 

[Dan Keliikoa]

Great discussion going here, nice to see it revived! Thanks Seth and all for all the great contributions to our 'bits and pieces' thread of this incredible film (and book).

Ligeti's choral music used in this film was brilliant...and probably about the creepiest music I've ever heard, especially as it crescendos. Extremely appropriate for the material, though.

 

[Rex Bachmann]

As to the Paxton comments (post #63),


I was going to do a long(er) spiel on them, but, fortunately, the online "Wikipedia" entry has already done much of the work. Specifically:

Also Sprach Zarathustra


"O, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive."


By the way and just for the record, the character (and the historical figure)'s name is Zarathustra ('having an old camel') (Hellenized as Zoroaster), not Zarathrustra.

 

[JeremyErwin]

Orange and Pink on white? Eww. Umm, could you possibly not color your quotations? Thanks.

 

[Dan Lindley]

Lots of great stuff here. Another fun book to get ahold of is "The Making of 2001" I have the Agel tome, but there are others (search Amazon, etc).

As for the tether, you can see that even today, our astronauts are not always tethered, and I think the 2001 space suits had little directional rockets. See the bottom: http://www.guntheranderson.com/costu...1-realback.jpg where there seem to be four jets?

Dan

 

[Steve Blair]

2001 and 2010 premier on Hdnet movies Saturday night and I just caught a bit of the commercial. Holy ****! it looked good, like it was filmed last week. I'm catching both tomorrow and then counting the minutes til' the hd dvd release