1080p DLP's around the corner (1 Viewer)

[EricRWem]

Retracted.

 

[Wayde_R]

What show are they at? I know cedia is coming but Sony would definitely be there.

 

[EricRWem]

It's all here for you all to read. I figure a quick link is more effective then me doing a bunch of copying and pasting. I personally have never heard of whatever this show was they were at.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&pagenumber=3

That thread was kind of the "dedicated question for the show" thread and then there's the other ongoing thread that I linked to earlier.

I had to retract the post about the 1080p inputs. It looks like a couple of big honchos from Samsung corrected themselves and shot that down. I figured, in 2005, a display under 5 figures that had 1080p inputs would be too good to be true. I was right.

 

[MarkN]

EXCELLENT info, thanks!

 

[Scott L]

I bet in a few years we'll be snickering at the fact that some of us actually bought 1080p TVs that don't accept 1080p in. What a crock! I think I'll wait.

Oh and to the people who think the rainbow effect is horrible, it's not bad at all. My friends and I watch movies all the time on my 4805 and they didn't notice it until I tell them what to look for. Even afterwards it doesn't bother them one bit, same with me and I have critical eyes. Plus I should mention color wheels are getting faster all the time...

 

[EricRWem]

Well, Scott, I totally know what you mean. The jury is not complete done on this "1080p input" issue, but I retracted any authoritative stance on it because there's a CHANCE Samsung may add it before all is said and done. I'm no whiz on this, but I've been told that it really wouldn't be a major effort for them to make AT LEAST the HDMI Inputs 1080p ready. I really hope they, and every other company, start doing that come this Fall.

I'm encouraged by the fact that these new DLP's from all the major companies will be on to what? 4th? 5th generation chips? I'd be nervous as hell for sure if this were first gen, first time, but...I sure have liked the DLPs I've seen.

Read my thread about displays in the Widescreen Magazine mini-forum to get my feelings on where I'm at in this display hunt.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=232601

By all means, all input appreciated.

 

[Dennis Pagoulatos]

If there is no true 1080P content, then there really is no point in having a 1080P display device.

And as someone else mentioned, where is all this bandwidth going to magically appear to allow cable/satellite providers the ability to beam the huge amounts of data required by 1080P video, or hell, even 720P video, at a data rate that does NOT look like total crap when ANYTHING on the screen moves?

Until that happens, there's no rush whatsoever to jump into any HD display device. HDMI/ DVI/ HDCP are obviously not worked out yet...or even close to it, so who'd want a 1080P device that won't have the "final correct standard HD inputs" whenever the industry stops dicking around and picks something, ANYTHING as the standard input.

It's depressing that it's already 2005, a year from the supposed transition to HD, and HD is still basically B.S.

-Dennis

 

[EricRWem]

That's a bit harsh, but I understand what you mean.
HD has not fully arrived yet. When you talk about choices and the prices therof on both hardware and programming...and we see that SD is still far and away the most prominent...it's the truth. HD is not fully here yet.

But remember: This is the same realm of customers and adoption that sees us still sitting on CD's after 15+ years and taking sideways and backwards steps, in terms of audio quality, with the sale of Ipods and the boom of WMA and especially MP3's.

Meanwhile, you have beautiful products like SACD and DVD-A barely holding niche markets. That's a differnt topic altogether, but suffice it to say: I view SACD and DVD-A both as one of the THE largest tragedies of waste I've ever seen in all of home theater and consumer electronics.

I've never seen products with so little push, advertising, exposure, and heat. Unreal!

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Wrong.

Allow me to repeat myself: DVDs are not true 480p. They are encoded on the disc as 480i. But would you want to watch a DVD at 480i? Not me. One benefit of a 1080p display *right now* is to deinterlace 1080i sources, which there are plenty of right now.

 

[Wayde_R]

Hey Kevin.

I don't really want to say it because obviously some folks are really happy about 1080P and I'm sure might even be some visible benefit in deinterlacing 1080i content. Believe me I'm not out to stir trouble or even try to rain on anybodies excitement if they're about to purchase such an instrument. My reservations are purely technical/philosophical and as a consumer I would buy the best I could possibly afford for the day I was buying and this means today I would seriously have to consider 1080P.

But you said it was wrong to say there is no true 1080P content, citing that DVDs are not true 480P. The conclusion doesn't seem to follow.

Maybe (some) folks that are excited about 1080P, don't yet have a 720P display. And those who already have a 720P display (like me) are liable to be ambivalent about the upgrade at this time.

But as a 720P owner, living with macroblocking on HD movies isn't pretty and it's very distracting. It's so distracting I often wonder why there is such a big fuss about HD in the first place. Why isn't there revolt in the streets? There is clearly some software engineering to be done in the decompression of 720P at this time. With that fact it's difficult for me to get thrilled about a new "higher" level of definition that the current Mpeg2 decoding cannot possibly do justice to.

What I'm trying to say is... 720P looks AWESOME as it is. But you only get to see its full awesomeness in a few PBS specials and tech demo loops. "They" just don't do it right yet, most of the time. I wonder if it's ever to be done "right". If the HD viewership collectively doesn't care about macroblocking, or if their video signal is up to their display's capabilities then there is no real motivation for the software aspect of our HT hobby to ever be fixed. We're all happy with mediocrity. We're not demanding the fullest potential of our display devices when we're thrilled with net-video-data-rate that equals 720P (encoded in a compression format that doesn't even keep up with the demands of 720P) being stretched across 1080P pixels and that's good enough for us to get excited about and maybe drop a few extra grand on a display because of this; where is the entertainment and TV retail industry to receive accountability for its shortcomings when they're not even perceived as shortcomings? On the contrary, we're in denial of any shortcomings.

To me it doesn't wash. I want 720P fixed. There are alternatives to Mpeg2. It’s no secret that consumer's gladly accept mediocrity before excellence, and this is a danger to the HD and DTV “revolution” itself. It is why the MP3 is a household word when DVD-Audio still raises eyebrows. Does anyone really care about High Definition Video? Really? Or are we just impressed with numbers on a spec sheet?

That being said, I must agree with Kevin's well stated sentiment that in a few years displays will naturally be capable of 1080P. Of this I have no doubt. I just don't think we'll ever see the true potential of 1080P(with the exception of perhaps a few HTPC applications). Even the biggest boosters of 1080P right now can only state ancillary benefits.

 

[EricRWem]

I agree with you Wayde.

I'll simply restate something I said a few posts ago: ANY boost and benefit I can get, I will take it.

 

[Craig]

Well, I'm going to be replacing my Toshiba 56" widescreen, now 5 1/2 years old, with a new HDTV in another year or so, and I'm very excited about the 1080P models that are coming out. HD broadcasts are a secondary concern to me, I'm a big DVD fan. With Hi-Def DVDs on the way and a 1080P display device, I'm anticipating a really spectacular picture.

As far as HD broadcasts, I think a 1080i source deinterlaced into 1080P will yield as good a picture as is possible with that 1080i source. Now whether that is as good as a native 1080P source or whether the 1080i source itself is as good as it should be, I can't control. However, I'm very happy that there's something new on the horizon.

 

[DanielKellmii]

I think you have it right. I don't see this as a "build it and they will come" issue. There are too many players; the industry, government(s) and consumers. On top of that is the extra bandwidth that good 1080P will require. I don't think that the broadcasters will want to give up bandwidth for 1080P. They have no finacial incentive. Broadcasters can't even agree on one HD standard. Adding one more would just cause too much on an expense.

 

[Sami Kallio]

That's why Verizon is going to be a major player going after satellite and cable markets.

 

[Scott L]

Don't forget about those of us with HTPCs where ANY resolution is possible. With the more efficient dual-core chips hitting the shelves (and later, 64-bit windows) it will be interesting to see what post-processing options there'll be for computers when HD-DVD/BR have been out for a bit.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

I think one problem is cable and dish companies that do advertise "HD" content, but it isn't true HD. So people get disillusioned by the poor quality of "HD" that they are seeing. HD-DVD/BluRay will fix that as well as (hopefully) improving dish and cable HD quality.

A good friend of mine though says: you want true HD quality? Stick a big antenna on your roof, and get it that way. That's better than what cable and the dish give across the board. That's what he says, anyway.

 

[Wayde_R]

I just watched LOTR on my cable HD movie channel. Saved on my PVR, I was able to make comparison's to the images on the DVD I have. It was funny how much better the HD version looked. But the sound was not even close. The DVD audio quality was so much more articulate, even though the cable broadcast was in 5.1 it couldn't match the detailed audio of the DVD in Dolby Digital.

The scenes where the fellowship are riding up to Rohan, Horse men in the forground, camera focused on the town of Rohan on the high steppe with moutains in the background. That complex image looked like a Middle Earth post card in HD, you could see clearly the individual cottages and houses on the hill, the glaciers on the mountains in the background even looked solid though not in focus. The DVD rendering the same image was sad by comparison, the mountains are blurry, the town on the hill looked too dark and the individual houses could only be hinted at by comparison. Not-so-strangely the macroblocking was very much under control with this one, only when VERY close up images moved quickly would you see it. Still a problem but not as bad as in many films-to-HD. This convinces me that there is a film-to-HD "skill" involved, the problem isn't necessarily Mpeg2 but the way it's empoyed with 90% of HD films.

I know that has nothing to do with 1080P but I thought I'd throw it out there having just read Kevin's post on HD-DVD/BluRay. I really really really can't wait for them. I just hope the first ones that hit the market are not priced to gouge, no way am I spending $1K or more on a unit. I will however buy one if it's closer to the $500 price point with at least mid-fi audio parts.

 

[EricRWem]

Wayde: Supposedly Toshiba's HD-DVD player will MSRP at $999. That's not bad for a first gen piece at all. Personally, I intend to support one format. The one I consider superior: Blu-Ray.

In any event, Kevin's friend is right. OTA is the best way to go for quality HD IF geography and climate cooperate with you.

I'm seriously considering going that route myself and just terminating cable outright, except for my broadband Internet service. I'm paying $45 a month for "basic cable" that doesn't even include any STB's. I've tried higher packages, but the STB hardware is so cheap that I see an amazing PQ loss on any TV's in my house vs. just having the cable go straight to the TV OTA style. And it's absurdly expensive for questionable quality.

I'll probably look into satellite again later this Fall, after I've upgraded my display. Certainly with OTA, I always have something in my backpocket. If you get a high quality OTA, there's always going to be more signals that you're going to catch over time as HD expands and everything else expands.

I don't really think you can go wrong with OTA if you plan it right and your location allows for it.