1.85:1 on Warner titles

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Cameron Yee, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. Cameron Yee

    Cameron Yee Executive Producer
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    I posted this in my "Get Smart" on BD review thread:


    I think we have an upcoming chat with Warner and it might be a question worth asking. It's not a huge deal to me - I'm mostly just curious about the reasoning behind it (I think I pretty much know but I just want the official word).

    And hopefully I've spared myself any "user error" embarrassment. [​IMG]

    EDIT: I also found this thread: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...-1-85-1-a.html
     
  2. Jace_A

    Jace_A Second Unit

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    Warners have been releasing all their 1.85:1 movies in 1.78:1 on DVD since 1998.
     
  3. CraigF

    CraigF Cinematographer

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    OT but vaguely related: I mentioned last week that the Sin City BD is 1.78:1 vs the theatrical 1.85:1. The little response was sort of "not a big problem". I can't even see the diff with my HT display, but I thought it may be an issue for most people with LCD/plasma, and from a purist standpoint. I guess the ratio diff hasn't been a problem so far, bigger fish to fry especially with WB...
     
  4. Zack Gibbs

    Zack Gibbs Screenwriter

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    In the case of Sin City 1.78:1 would be the OAR, as are all of Rodriguez's films shot in HD. That's his choice, the films get matted for cinemas.
     
  5. CraigF

    CraigF Cinematographer

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    ^ Ah, thanks, I didn't know that. So it's my DVD that's screwed up then (1.85)...all the more reason to pass it on.
     
  6. Douglas Monce

    Douglas Monce Producer

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    Get Smart was shot digitally with the Panavision Genesis, (all except for slow motion shots which were shot on film) so 1.78:1 is the correct aspect ratio.

    Doug

    Doug
     
  7. Robert George

    Robert George Screenwriter

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    If 1.78 vs. 1.85 is going to be the next "issue" on these forums, then I'm moving out of the country.

    (Only half kidding)

    Seriously, if the difference in framing between 1.78 and 1.85 makes absolutely ANY difference to someone as to whether to buy a movie, or watch a movie, or make stupid statements about the studio that made the movie, then it is time for the sane members of the various HT forums to rise up and ostracize that element of membership. Johnny-come-lately film "experts" are only making it harder and harder for the enthusiast community to be taken seriously ANYWHERE outside of these forums.

    You know who you are, and for those of you that don't know who you are, it is long past time for others to point out who you are and put a lid on it.

    BTW, there is far more variation from theater to theater and even screen to screen out there in the commercial cinema world where these films are MEANT to be seen than the difference between 1.78 and 1.85.

    If you can't enjoy a movie for what it is, think about finding a new hobby.
     
  8. Cameron Yee

    Cameron Yee Executive Producer
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    I agree with you Robert, but I find it interesting that they will put on the packaging 1.85:1 when it isn't. I'm not sure of the reasoning there.
     
  9. CraigF

    CraigF Cinematographer

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    ?? People are asking questions because they DON'T know. Exactly the opposite of professing to be all-knowing, wouldn't you say?

    As a certain mod would say: straw dogs. Go watch it!

    Edit: almost forgot. I wish the experts would go and correct the sources who *do* profess to be experts on film, such as those who assemble the data for imdb. That is presuming of course that we are not confusing theatrical OAR with camera OAR (which is irrelevant since we're not behind one). Home Theater not Home Photography. For us idiots who can only watch and not make.
     
  10. WillG

    WillG Producer

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    Paramount does this as well
     
  11. Ron Reda

    Ron Reda Cinematographer

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    Cameron, very thorough of you to do your "due diligence" and check into this issue for us, well done!

    I think the issue here is what your quote above states...if they would indicate 1.78:1 on the back of the packaging, then we (most likely) wouldn't be asking these questions.

    The only reason why I questioned it is due to my experience with my own 56" Sammy DLP set. when watching the recent Connery-era Bond releases, I had read that there should be slight pillar boxes on either side of the image yet I don't see them when watching on my set. I have also recalled films that I know to be 1.85:1 ratios yet they are filling my screen sans black bars. Bottom line, if I'm paying this much for a film on Blu-ray, I wanna see it ALL! [​IMG]
     
  12. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Producer
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    The first three Connerys are 1.66:1, which would be windowboxed within a 16x9 (1.78:1) frame... the difference between 1.66:1 and 1.78:1 is small enough that overscan more than makes up the difference on most sets. The same, only more so, is true with the difference between 1.85:1 and 1.78:1.
     
  13. Marko Berg

    Marko Berg Supporting Actor

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    I realize you had a smiley-face after the above comment, Ron, but just in case... It's equally possible WB opened the mattes (unless the film was hard-matted which is unlikely, I think) for the home video transfer instead of cutting off the sides. In which case you'd be seeing slightly more of the picture than you would in the cinema.
     
  14. Douglas Monce

    Douglas Monce Producer

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    Again, Get Smart, if that is the film you're talking about, was shot digitally with the Panavision Genesis, so 1.78:1 is the native aspect ratio. There are no mattes and it was likely cropped to 1.85:1 by every theater that showed it on film. As others have stated the difference between the two is almost imperceptible.

    Doug
     
  15. Zack Gibbs

    Zack Gibbs Screenwriter

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    You know I had to look that up (Wikipedia says it's 16x9 as well) because I wouldn't have guessed the Genesis had a native 16X9 AR. The big draw of the camera was that it used a single 35mm sized sensor so that it would be compatible with existing panavision lenses, and I don't quite understand how that can work if it doesn't have a native academy ratio?
     
  16. Douglas Monce

    Douglas Monce Producer

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    Its actually a standard 1920 X 1080 camera. Its simply that the sensor is about the size of a Super 35mm film frame (full 3 perf super 35 being 1.85:1 and the Genesis being 1.78:1), not that it is academy ratio. In fact academy ratio is not the full 35mm frame, it is cropped to leave room for the soundtrack. Also academy ratio isn't 1.85:1, but rather 1.37:1 as used in almost every film made from the beginning of sound to about 1952.

    The point of having a sensor around the size of a Super 35mm frame isn't to make the camera compatible with existing lenses (although that is also an issue), it is actually to give the camera the same depth of field characteristics of a standard 35mm movie camera. The smaller sensor of cameras such as the Sony HDW-F900 give it a much deeper depth of field, making it difficult to make the subject of the shot in sharp focus, while the background is blurred. Also with the smaller sensor a 50mm lens, for instance, becomes an 80mm lens, turning what was a standard focal length lens into a telephoto.

    Doug
     
  17. Cassy_w

    Cassy_w Second Unit

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    1.85:1 movies are NOT being cropped. The mattes are simply removed. You are seeing a fraction of extra info top and bottom. Basically a few scan lines at top and at bottom.
     
  18. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Lead Actor

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    Tell me which one is 1.78:1 and which is 1.85:1. This is a comparison that essentially demonstrates the difference on DVD and BluRay.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Travis Brashear

    Travis Brashear Screenwriter

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    You can obviously see more of the dark wave at the bottom in the top screenshot, so I vote 1.78:1 for that one. Not a major difference, but a notable one.
     
  20. Ken_McAlinden

    Ken_McAlinden Producer
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    I noticed that for one of the recent Warner releases (I think it was Get Smart) a number of the 16:9 enhanced featurettes had the super slim 1.85:1 mattes even though the feature did not. I did not note this in the review since it seemed extremely insignificant. [​IMG]

    In any case, I always try to indicate the actual aspect ratio in my reviews for Warner product regardless of what the packaging says.

    Regards,
     

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